Noa Pothoven of Arnhem in the Netherlands is legally euthanised

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

No. This has nothing to do with State sanctioned killing. The line is very broad, this is "I want to live" vs "I won't do die". That's not your choice. It's everybody who has to know that for themselves. Can you imagine years of pain mental or physical with no hope for better times?
Some cope and have a strong personality to find joy no matter what. Others don't.
It's their and their families decision. And show me one person who doesn't take death seriously when it's about their own life.
She went through years of testing and this was the most merciful thing to do.

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: mobiusmale
...like she might have found in motherhood...

Are you serious? Your advice to someone who got raped and traumatised to the point where her life was endless suffering is "get #ed by some dude and than press out a watermelon in front of a bunch of strangers"
That's literally the dumbest, most heartless thing anyone ever wrote on ATS

Yeah, I had to ignore that one on first read. "Insensitive" doesn't even cut it. "Utterly retarded" isn't backhanded enough to leave a mark, either.

I wasn't aware that I had posted in the Mud Pit.

I am "utterly retarded" now...thanks. An example used in the OP that triggered you aside, the central point of my writing it remains.

Not you,the comment of telling a traumatic rape victim to have sex, get pregnant and then give birth through the area that was horrifically violated was retarded. Calling it boneheaded wouldn't mean you're a bonehead, either. Stop splitting hairs.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Yes while you # puke cry and scream from the pain. The size of a watermelon...
You are sick, or you simply don't know what you are talking about. Or have np feeling for how much traumatised she was.

a reply to: Nyiah

Chernobyl plant was a tightly controlled thing too, and it was supposed to be safe as safe can be. Same with the Titanic.

You can think you have everything controlled for and still be making a grievous mistake.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: mobiusmale
...like she might have found in motherhood...

Are you serious? Your advice to someone who got raped and traumatised to the point where her life was endless suffering is "get #ed by some dude and than press out a watermelon in front of a bunch of strangers"
That's literally the dumbest, most heartless thing anyone ever wrote on ATS

Was just an example...could just as easily have said she could become a 1st responder, or a truama counsellor, or a nun...or a million other things.

There are literally millions of women (maybe tens of millions) who have been molested at some point ,then gone on to become happy wives and mothers. Press out a watermelon huh? Nice.

Pushing a watermelon through a keyhole has been the euphemism for ages.

Again, she didn't just stroll in and fill out some paperwork to have it done same-day. She went through years of heavy therapy and a multitude of qualifiers to be given the right to decide. Get your panties out of your hoo-ha, it's a tightly controlled thing with a lot of measures in place to make sure it's the last resort option.

I am sure you will keep believing that, right up until the time you are 89 and becoming a bit of a burden on the medical system/your family doctor.

Oh...and it is impossible to get a FISA Warrant without irrefutable evidence being provided to a FISA Court Judge. Right?

Anyway, you think it's cool, and the Government can be trusted to make life/death decisions for me, and I don't. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Nyiah

Chernobyl plant was a tightly controlled thing too, and it was supposed to be safe as safe can be. Same with the Titanic.

You can think you have everything controlled for and still be making a grievous mistake.

Be that as it may, I still am for the option being available for last resort options. I want the option of assisted suicide in my old age instead of going out like withered, dying animal in a hospice bed, or sooner in the event of terminal disease. It shouldn't be restricted for people who qualify for it when all else fails for them.

a reply to: mobiusmale

The gouvernement made that decision? Are you sure?

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: mobiusmale
...like she might have found in motherhood...

Are you serious? Your advice to someone who got raped and traumatised to the point where her life was endless suffering is "get #ed by some dude and than press out a watermelon in front of a bunch of strangers"
That's literally the dumbest, most heartless thing anyone ever wrote on ATS

Was just an example...could just as easily have said she could become a 1st responder, or a truama counsellor, or a nun...or a million other things.

There are literally millions of women (maybe tens of millions) who have been molested at some point ,then gone on to become happy wives and mothers. Press out a watermelon huh? Nice.

Pushing a watermelon through a keyhole has been the euphemism for ages.

Again, she didn't just stroll in and fill out some paperwork to have it done same-day. She went through years of heavy therapy and a multitude of qualifiers to be given the right to decide. Get your panties out of your hoo-ha, it's a tightly controlled thing with a lot of measures in place to make sure it's the last resort option.

I am sure you will keep believing that, right up until the time you are 89 and becoming a bit of a burden on the medical system/your family doctor.

Oh...and it is impossible to get a FISA Warrant without irrefutable evidence being provided to a FISA Court Judge. Right?

Anyway, you think it's cool, and the Government can be trusted to make life/death decisions for me, and I don't. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think my immediately below yours answers your assumption. I want the right to choose when to die in my old age, if I make it to old age. I also want the right to choose when to die if I'm terminally ill tomorrow, also.

I watched my grandmother wither and die from colon cancer that wasn't treatable. She wasn't lucid for a great deal of it in her final months. I do NOT want to go out that way.

a reply to: Peeple

That's just it though ... because of your mental state, you don't know that you have "no hope" for anything better. It's not like your spinal cord has been severed so you know you're never going to talk again barring medical breakthrough.

a reply to: Nyiah

So because *you* want the option, you're willing to live with a system that might be deeply flawed and make horrific mistakes, even to the point of allowing "suicides" for those who maybe shouldn't be allowed them?

Suicide and assisted suicide are two very different things.

There is no way to stop someone from committing suicide themselves, but when done with assistance it becomes a problem. If a person is not ready enough to do it solo, they are not truly ready. If they were, they would not need any assistance.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: mobiusmale

I am pretty libertarian in the fact that I think everyone has the right to choose when and how they want to die. HOWEVER I think she was too young to properly make the decision and the state should have been mature enough to legally make her wait a few more years to make sure.

This is the exact same thing I came here to post. I am 100% on board with Right to Die but wow was it ever misapplied in this case.

a reply to: ketsuko

We are talking about untreatable in this case. She tried, nothing helped. Not just a month, a year or once, everything available didn't give her any relief. She was anorexic she was already killing herself. This way she had to suffer a little less.

a reply to: Blaine91555

...says someone who never considered the horrors of available methods for unassisted suicide. Netherlands is not the US she couldn't have just shot herself.

a reply to: Peeple

Wait she only tried a very short time when it comes to this type of Illness - She was only 17 she tried for 3 years ?


"Molested when she was 11 and 12 and raped by two men when she was 14"

To answer you, Ket, every system has the potential for mistakes, horrific or otherwise. A lot of people die annually from hospital mistakes, but I don't see anyone wanting to make hospitals illegal. Just harshly punish the ones that skirt rules & regs and f# up. Best you can do in ANY system.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Suicide and assisted suicide are two very different things.

There is no way to stop someone from committing suicide themselves, but when done with assistance it becomes a problem. If a person is not ready enough to do it solo, they are not truly ready. If they were, they would not need any assistance.

Not entirely. If I'm bed-ridden and need help to bathe myself dying from cancer, I kind of need the help to off myself, too.

I'd rather a humane system be in place to help people go out on their own terms without fear and shame over their shoulder, and without leaving the mess others have to clean up when they stumble on Aunt Judy's swinging body from the attic rafters or Grandpa Bob's brains on the living room walls. THOSE are commonly cited reasons for suicide being bad all around, because others WILL find the body afterward and thus how dare those suicidal folks do that to others.

Give those people a safe & clean environment to say their goodbyes in without leaving a horror movie mess behind for a door prize to stumble on, it's far more humane.

a reply to: mobiusmale

what was done to her crushed her mentally. I doubt anyone comes out of a situation like that alright, but some cope with it and become stronger because of it. Perhaps if she had time and some better care, she might have done that as well. But she didn't. As with a lot of kids, who are used to things happening now, as opposed to planning a long time in the future, she made a rash decision. it was her decision, based on the laws of the country she lived in. We may not agree, but it's not up to us, it was up to her and her country.

It's instances like that, that make me wish the punishment for hurting a child was so amazingly harsh, that nobody would ever entertain the thought. There is no excuse for doing anything to hurt an innocent child. And death is way to easy. All I can do is pray her soul is no longer tormented by her demons.

The only reason government is involved is because they made suicide illegal to begin with.

They have also regulated assisted suicide. They made themselves the arbiters of our own bodies.

Individuality, self-determination is paramount in any society that wants to call itself free.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The only reason government is involved is because they made suicide illegal to begin with.

They have also regulated assisted suicide. They made themselves the arbiters of our own bodies.

Individuality, self-determination is paramount in any society that wants to call itself free.

Exactly right. If you don't have the right to choose when you leave the ship, you're not truly free at all.

a reply to: Peeple

"get #ed by some dude and than press out a watermelon in front of a bunch of strangers"

The way you add words to peoples posts just shows how lacking in comprehension you are, whats the point of your hyperbole?

Drama much?