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Abortion By The Numbers

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posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

At viability. Roe V Wade isn't broken. Your understanding of the issue is, though.




posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

No, no, no, no. Pretend you're writing the law. At what point would you ban abortion? Specifically, not some general platitude.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Viability is specific.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

OK, so you don't know... got it.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Viability was good enough for the Supreme Court. It's good enough for me.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

And if two different doctors disagree on when viability happens?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Sookiechacha

So at what point would you have it ban them?

TheRedneck


Exactly, the crux of the argument is when does a human life become viable.

To me the even an early stage fertilised egg is a viable human life, if left alone it will grow and become just like the rest of us.

Granted there are times when abortion even at a late stage should be an option but right now the law makes it a matter of convenience, which is astonishing.

viable
/ˈvʌɪəb(ə)l/
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions.

edit on 6/6/19 by Grenade because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: TheRedneck

"... deadly serious." (lol), and deadly hypocritical... care about the unborn, don't care about the 15 year old confused, uneducated girl in a terribly unfortunate situation who's carrying that unborn... Cognitive dissonance much?



Actually i think a lot of pro-lifers value both the mother and the child equally, along with the rest of their species. Is an unborn child not a member of the human species? If not, what are they?

I have compassion and heartfelt sympathy for the young girls out there who find themselves in a difficult situation. We should provide them with all the support and assistance possible to help them bring up their child. But and it's a big one, we should not facilitate their ability to terminate human life due to their irresponsible and reckless actions. Surely the girl would learn a better life lesson by having to face her responsibilities and like all mothers would find great joy and happiness when their baby arrives, willing to sacrifice whatever it takes for their child.

The greatest thing any of us will ever do is pro-create. It should be seen as a gift.

I do agree that better sex education and support for vulnerable girls/women is a must.

Before you dismiss my points as being ignorant on the subject, i have a 16 year old daughter and we are very close so i somewhat understand how her mind works. I would also agree she is not ready for children but should it happen she will have my full support in bringing up my grandchild.
edit on 6/6/19 by Grenade because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

No, not an independent, self-sustaining, viable member of the human species yet.

Oh... nice idea of "... providing all the support and assistance possible"... but the reality is, we don't... not at all... not even vaguely.

So, you say you care, but you assume up front if an abortion is needed/wanted, then their actions were"... irresponsible and reckless ...", and you make the massive assumption that forcing any given girl to have a child will be the best life lesson for her, without understanding the potential realities of how she became pregnant to begin with. She may not have a loving father like your daughter, she may have been manipulated into sex, ended up alone and pregnant... so, too bad suck it up.

The crux for you is apparently the unquestionable sanctity of a life... yet war, innocents dying, homeless people dying on the street, the death penalty, the weapon industry, etc. all suggest the social application of life isn't so sanctimonious. So seems like a double standard to me.

So, I'll leave you with the question that no anti-abortionists seems to want to answer:
Regardless of the factors that led to the symbiotic relationship, should any person be forced to be the life-support machine for another person if they don't want to be?



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: Grenade

No, not an independent, self-sustaining, viable member of the human species yet.

Oh... nice idea of "... providing all the support and assistance possible"... but the reality is, we don't... not at all... not even vaguely.

So, you say you care, but you assume up front if an abortion is needed/wanted, then their actions were"... irresponsible and reckless ...", and you make the massive assumption that forcing any given girl to have a child will be the best life lesson for her, without understanding the potential realities of how she became pregnant to begin with. She may not have a loving father like your daughter, she may have been manipulated into sex, ended up alone and pregnant... so, too bad suck it up.

The crux for you is apparently the unquestionable sanctity of a life... yet war, innocents dying, homeless people dying on the street, the death penalty, the weapon industry, etc. all suggest the social application of life isn't so sanctimonious. So seems like a double standard to me.

So, I'll leave you with the question that no anti-abortionists seems to want to answer:
Regardless of the factors that led to the symbiotic relationship, should any person be forced to be the life-support machine for another person if they don't want to be?



Well, that’s certainly food for thought. So people should not ever be forced to be life-support for another person.

Kind of shoots the entire tax/socialism/welfare system right in the ass!



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

Actually i find war, innocents dying, homeless people dying on the street, death penalty, military industrial complex and a whole load of other things equally abhorrent but this thread isn't about those things.

I can't account for others only ensure i am consistent in my own beliefs.

No-one is forcing girls to get pregnant and we are not machines. Like all other members of the animal kingdom we are designed to pro-create, it is fundamental to the propagation of our species. Name another species that willingly kills their own offspring in the womb.
edit on 6/6/19 by Grenade because: spelling



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:15 PM
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originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: Grenade

So, you say you care, but you assume up front if an abortion is needed/wanted, then their actions were"... irresponsible and reckless ...", and you make the massive assumption that forcing any given girl to have a child will be the best life lesson for her, without understanding the potential realities of how she became pregnant to begin with. She may not have a loving father like your daughter, she may have been manipulated into sex, ended up alone and pregnant... so, too bad suck it up.



I'm not totally against abortion, it should be assessed on a case by case basis with stringent guidelines.

Define "manipulated into sex"?

If she was a willing partner and able to understand that unprotected sex has a high possibility of pregnancy then unfortunately those actions, however mis-informed are the results of her own decisions and she should be held to account for them. Just like the rest of us.

I was 18 when my partner became pregnant, i had no money, just left school, no support from parents, no job.

I worked my ass off to provide and care for my little girl and am proud of the job i have done. I faced my responsibilities head on, we should all be accountable if we are able bodied.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere


Regardless of the factors that led to the symbiotic relationship, should any person be forced to be the life-support machine for another person if they don't want to be?

I'll be happy to answer your question. If they created it, yes.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Grenade


I was 18 when my partner became pregnant, i had no money, just left school, no support from parents, no job.

I worked my ass off to provide and care for my little girl and am proud of the job i have done. I faced my responsibilities head on, we should all be accountable if we are able bodied.

Dammit, I knew there was still good in mankind! Thank you, sir!

And God bless you for being a man and handling your responsibilities.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

This thread is apparently about the killing of innocent life, so war, and other innocent death related topics are at least tangentially related. It speaks to a consistent approach to life and the value of life in our world.

Just a quick search, (I also remember learning of an Australian native marsupial that eats a certain leaf to induce abortion when food is scarce)... I'm sure there's lots of examples:
The Bruce Effect
Males Make Pregnant Horses Abort
Pregnant male pipefish abort babies from unattractive females

Funny in these examples that it's the male that makes it an issue... seems like there's a parallel there... haha!

True, other than rape or coercion, no-one is forcing girls to get pregnant. But unwanted pregnancies do happen, regularly, often irresponsibly, but regularly not irresponsibly at all (very grey line there too).

So, if we're not machines, can you force someone to be the life support for another person, if they don't want to, regardless of their reasoning?



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

Manipulated: Played on a girls emotions, insecurities, naivety, inherent compassion, just a touch of emotional blackmail, just to get them in bed, maybe even convinced them it's alright not to use a condom. Made them feel like they were "the one" then immediately dumped and ignored after scoring.

I've known some horrible people, one in particular had the goal of getting girls pregnant, then dumping them, he just liked the idea that he may have kids out there. That guy's seed does not deserve to see the light of day, and I totally support aborting all of his progeny (in the first trimester).

Some young people just don't have the capacity to understand concepts like "high possibility of pregnancy" because they literally have no context for it (not enough education), especially when they're getting aroused, and in the heat of the moment... all new a disorienting experiences. Just as with judging character, some young people just haven't developed the skills to pick when they're being played, so it can lead to unwanted pregnancy...

... and you want to punish them for being stupid.

You sound like a good person, but there are many not as fortunate, or as good as you.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm responding to you against my better judgement.

So, how do you force them to carry the fetus if they are self hurting and trying to induce an abortion (not eating, ingesting whatever chemicals they can find, hitting their abdomen, etc)? Keep them against their will, even though at this point they have technically done nothing wrong? Restrain them for 9 months because they say they will abort?

Also, what if she succeeds in abortion? Take that girl from my post a few pages ago (puzzlesphere), what should her punishment be?



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

The shoe can also be on the other foot.

I don't want to get too personal with my own history. However, what i didn't say about my daughter is that when i was 20 years old her mother left as she "wasn't ready for kids". She left behind her two year old daughter and has maybe seen her 20 times in the last 14 years. It broke my little girls heart and i will never forgive her for being so cold and callous. I can tell you being a single Dad at 20 is no picnic, however i idolised my little girl and devoted my entire life to my children, i would spend eternity in hell for their happiness.

Luckily a few years later i met my wife and she took on the mother role that my previous partner didn't have the time, effort or spine to fill. My daughter could have easily been an aborted pregnancy and i would have been denied the one thing that has given my life meaning.

I also have a son who is 10 years old and the lessons learned from being a young single father have helped me immensely with his upbringing.

I didn't carry my daughter, i didn't give birth to her but i can assure you i've done more than her mother ever has or will.

So please people stop making out that fathers have no say on this subject. We are equally responsible for the creation of children and are just as capable of loving and bringing them up.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Grenade


I was 18 when my partner became pregnant, i had no money, just left school, no support from parents, no job.

I worked my ass off to provide and care for my little girl and am proud of the job i have done. I faced my responsibilities head on, we should all be accountable if we are able bodied.

Dammit, I knew there was still good in mankind! Thank you, sir!

And God bless you for being a man and handling your responsibilities.

TheRedneck


Cheers mate, i'm no angel but no-one can ever deny that i love my children.

I think a lot of woman who have abortions would regret the decision if they were somehow able to see what could have been.

The struggle is worth it the minute you see your child smile or laugh, crawl or walk, even when they cry.

Abortion denies the world the love of children, i understand some of the arguments for pro-choice but essentially it boils down to that. Because to me, nothing else really matters.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere


So, how do you force them to carry the fetus...

I don't.

I never said I would. There are times when the decision comes down to one of the mother's life or the child's life. In those cases, the mother's life must prevail. She can have another child (usually), but the child has a couple of decades to go before they are ready for that, and would be born with deformities that could be life-threatening anyway in most cases.

But abortion should not be something so easily granted as it is today. It should be something difficult, because it is the taking of a human life, and more difficult as time passes and the child gains the ability to feel pain. I can think of nothing more evil in this world that to wait until the child is conscious to kill it, but that's exactly what many argue for. They are able to do this because they say "it's not really alive" or "it's not a baby yet" or "it's part of me." Those are excuses to soothe a conscience that is screaming at them.

No. It is alive, it is human, and it is not one of the mother's organs. Admit that and we can talk, but otherwise you're just making the exact same excuses used by every baby-killer out there.

TheRedneck




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