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Abortion By The Numbers

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posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

Yes... you're right Mister Moral, pro-choice are all cold heartless people... geez... very constructive.

Of course there is compassion... no-one on any side is saying "Yay! abortions for everyone!... let's go get the Sunday 2-4-1 deal!", it's just that there is also compassion for the mother's situation, and the merits and effects on both lives must be considered. It is always a difficult decision, and not taken as lightly as anti-abortionists would make it seem.

Unfortunately, for many less educated people (and there are a LOT of uneducated people)... it is an option for birth control... but you know, that's because of, well... lack of education!

So you want to make the uneducated into criminals by making something that they don't fully understand the factors and implications of, yet seems like a convenient solution, illegal? Seems smart... not.




posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:15 PM
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Besides it seems abortion is a perfectly reasonable method of birth control.


Are you serious? Do you honestly believe women see abortion as a perfectly reasonable method of birth control? Like going to the dentist to ge their teeth cleaned?

They don't give any thought to something that severely alters their emotional well-being and the balance of their bodies? Do you talk to women at all? Apparently you're not even in speaking terms with your mother if you think women's lives aren't impacted by aborting a fetus.

For thousands of years abortion was(still is around the world) very dangerous for the woman. She could end up dead during the medical procedure, she could get her body maimed, and even if things turned out well, physically, many women would develop serious mental issues over what they went through.

That is, if their neighbhors didn't somehow found out about what she did. If they did happen to find about it - her social life would over, in many cases her own life would be over either killed by outraged peasants or by the Church.

Women only use abortion, the majority of the women who abort, as a last resort method and most of the time they feel conflicted about it.




In fact some people are outraged at the idea we would even question the ethics of abortion, after-all the child has no rights while in a mothers womb.


It seems you're having a hard time comprehending this so I'm going to say it slowly.

Cells. Do. Not have. A Conscience. Legally speaking, fetuses can only be aborted within a certain span of time. This means that before that cut-off time limit for when it becomes illegal for a woman to abort, there is NO BABY. Just a collection of cells that haven't achieved sentience yet. That bag of cells doesn't feel pain, hunger, thirst, sadness or anything else that makes a conscious and living creature, what it is.



Madness and indefensible if you ask me, it's a sad world we live in


What's madness and sadness is that men - the sex that can ejaculate inside a woman after 5-30 minutes of pumping away - the sex that has none of the obligations and responsabilities, meaning that dude can say bye bye to the woman he got pregnant and never see her again, like it happened to millions of women worldwide, do not have any RIGHT to take the high moral ground where it concerns abortion and what constitutes human life or not. Women have the burden of getting preagnant and giving birth. Do some women wish to abort? Be my fooking guest, they earned that right.
edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

Again i never said all pro choice.

I actually agree that under certain circumstances abortion is justified.

However, the majority of abortions, based on the evidence are simply inconvenient to the mother.

A large contingent within the pro choice crowd actually argue that abortion should be on the table right up till 9 months. I simply can't understand that point of view. At 9 months to kill a child sickens me to the core hence my strong language.

I understand no all women who make the choice to have an abortion do it lightly without thinking it over deeply. I also sympathise with these women, but to make abortion a readily available option to young women is counter productive imho.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: Grenade

Yes... you're right Mister Moral, pro-choice are all cold heartless people... geez... very constructive.

Of course there is compassion... no-one on any side is saying "Yay! abortions for everyone!... let's go get the Sunday 2-4-1 deal!", it's just that there is also compassion for the mother's situation, and the merits and effects on both lives must be considered. It is always a difficult decision, and not taken as lightly as anti-abortionists would make it seem.

Unfortunately, for many less educated people (and there are a LOT of uneducated people)... it is an option for birth control... but you know, that's because of, well... lack of education!

So you want to make the uneducated into criminals by making something that they don't fully understand the factors and implications of, yet seems like a convenient solution, illegal? Seems smart... not.


The problem is that men in general don't have much compassion for women, nor do they even like women all that much. Wanting to bang them does not, necessarily, translate into actually liking them as human beings.

You have Sharia Law Islam, pretty much almost all of the Muslim Nations see it the same way, treating women as sex slaves, property, and incubators, and then you have what is now the western world, with modern men being pretty much the same way muslim men are. Except they can no longer do to western women what muslim men do to muslim women, and boy do they hate that women are autonomous beings.

That's why you have a bunch of white middle-aged men who come into this thread acting like what they say and what the want women to do, and not do, to be the right thing, to be the moral course of action to take. Remember that those who were involved in making abortion not only illegal in Alabama, but doing it ges the woman an instant one-way-trip to prison for 99 years no matter the circumstances she got pregnant in, have daughters and sisters and female cousins but they don't give a fook.
edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: Ligyron

I know personally 3 women who have confided in me regarding abortions. Each of them made the decision to abort the pregnancy for their own benefit, regardless of how much their emotional state was altered.

If they didn't have an abortion they would have given birth to a child. Isn't that the very definition of birth control.

My mother and I get on great, she is also against abortion. I have two children and a wife. So yes, i have women in my life its just not the militant feminist sort.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: Ligyron

Actually i'm here because i value all human life equally, man, woman, child alike.

It's you who's stereotyping and playing the gender card.

My wife would never even consider an abortion because she has some moral fibre and knows that together we would battle through hell to provide for them. Not that we would be so reckless and foolish to conceive a child we had no intention of bringing into the world in the first place.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Ligyron


Do you honestly believe women see abortion as a perfectly reasonable method of birth control? Like going to the dentist to ge their teeth cleaned?

According to the OP, it sure seems that way.


For thousands of years abortion was(still is around the world) very dangerous for the woman. She could end up dead during the medical procedure, she could get her body maimed, and even if things turned out well, physically, many women would develop serious mental issues over what they went through.

I didn't know we were legislating for historical purposes.

Abortions are still dangerous, but only as dangerous as any procedure. And they're not that messy as far as anyone but the doctor and nurses know. You go in, they do the deed, you walk out.


Legally speaking, fetuses can only be aborted within a certain span of time.

Yes, until they exit the birth canal.

That Federal prohibition on partial birth has no teeth... just kill it before a certain point in the birth canal, and you're allowed to remove it piece by piece if that's what is wanted.

Incidentally, when is that point of sentience? Do you know for certain?


What's madness and sadness is that men - the sex that can ejaculate inside a woman after 5-30 minutes of pumping away - the sex that has none of the obligations and responsabilities, meaning that dude can say bye bye to the woman he got pregnant and never see her again, like it happened to millions of women worldwide, do not have any RIGHT to take the high moral ground...

Well, that right there is why you are about to lose your precious Roe vs. Wade decision. Like it or not, men have rights too, and you can take that "go sit in the corner and shut up" attitude and shove it. When you're in here crying about the reversal of your precious "reproductive rights," remember that it was THAT ATTITUDE that cost you what you claimed to cherish so much.

This country ain't your personal playground. Others get to speak up as well as Your HIghness.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:36 PM
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I actually agree that under certain circumstances abortion is justified.


No. It's not only under certain circumstances that an abortion becomes justifiable. It's when the woman who is pregnant decides she doesn't want to give birth to the fetus. Maybe the fetus has been screened and has been found to potentially suffer from congenital deformities. Or the baby that is going to come out of the fetus if not aborted will have downs syndrome.

Or she's poor and can't afford a kid. Or she's middle-class and the ultra fooking capitalism that plagues the western nations makes it nearly impossible for her to provide a decent quality of living for the fetus-turned-baby.

Or she's world-conscious and realizes that there's nearly 8 billion human beings and the world's human population is increasing, which makes it dumb for middle-class people to have children, as the living costs keeps increasing and the wages have been stagnant since the 80's. Time for us to stop focusing on quantity and to start focusing in quality. What we need is to make more men like Cristiano Ronaldo, Brad Pitt, and Sean O'Pry.




However, the majority of abortions, based on the evidence are simply inconvenient to the mother.


Condoms and the pill keep a woman from getting pregnant. Millions of lives are aborted before they even have the chance to be conceived. We need to erradiate personal birth-control because it's immoral to have sex without the intent of making babies!

That's sarcasm. It doesn't matter what the reason for the abortion is. WOMEN have the RIGHT to abort because it's their body.



A large contingent within the pro choice crowd actually argue that abortion should be on the table right up till 9 months. I simply can't understand that point of view. At 9 months to kill a child sickens me to the core hence my strong language.


And a large contigent of feminism militants decry Man as rapists and as something to be avoided. There were ultra-feminists who were trying to motivate women to become political lesbians. That means they wanted women to stop having sex with men and to start having sex with other women as a form of political manifestation against men.

Should we demolish feminism because of these hardcore weirdos? Well, I'm sure most conservatives would love to go back to America 1950 LOL, but no thanks, I like it the way it is now.




I understand no all women who make the choice to have an abortion do it lightly without thinking it over deeply. I also sympathise with these women, but to make abortion a readily available option to young women is counter productive imho.


How is making abortion a ''readily'' avaiable option to young women to be counter-productive? How is it counter-productive? to whom? Are you going to raise these kids? Are you going to pay for their education? Then why are you as a man trying to tell women what they can do or not? Should women start controling men's bodies?



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

If the child can safely be removed from the womb, and is viable under intensive care, then we should make all attempts to do so, if the woman wants an abortion at that point. I've heard of that being possible as early as 5 1/2 months. So the cutoff point is somewhere before that for me... for me, cutoff is actually before the first sign of consciousness, as early as 11 weeks.

Having said that, I've had this conversation a lot, and I've never heard anyone (except anti-abortionists saying they've heard people say it) advocate 9 month abortions, other than for health reasons... the worst I've ever heard is end second trimester... which is about the point the child becomes viable outside the body, so for me, back to the first part of my response, surgical delivery... so not really an issue in reality.

I think to not make it readily available (as the final, very severe option), and risk some poor, frightened, ashamed girl having to go through this in isolation, and potentially risk harming themselves, is even more counter productive.

I think it should be talked about, discussed and accepted long before sexual maturity, and children taught and given skills to avoid ever having to resort to that most horrible option, but when all other paths have failed it is an option, and society will support woman through it.

But it shouldn't be illegal.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 05:48 PM
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I didn't know we were legislating for historical purposes.


We're legislating to make sure women can gain access to medical care and access to the medical technology that can safely get them what they need, without having to resort to shady back-alley doctors, yes, and sadly many, many women around the world have to use unlicensed doctors, doctors lacking experience and looking to make a quick buck from desperate, vulnerable young women, to remove the fetus from their bodies.

The problem is that conservative men, the segment of men who make these rules and laws with the aim to control women are deep-down, if not public about it, white Muslim men. Red pillers, incels, obese middle-aged men who like to call themselves average, wanting to call the shots and decide what women in North America are allowed to do. Probably lashing out because those same women don't want to have anything to do with them, sexually. ''Can't fook them? At least we can fook up their lives, tehehehee.''



Incidentally, when is that point of sentience? Do you know for certain?


About the time it becomes illegal to abort?




Well, that right there is why you are about to lose your precious Roe vs. Wade decision. Like it or not, men have rights too, and you can take that "go sit in the corner and shut up" attitude and shove it.


And what rights are those, because all I hear from Men Right's activists is WAHH WAHHH WHITE MEN HAVE IT SO BAD, when if these genetic rejects were to visit any Country in the world other than Canada, the USA and Europe they'd see how good they have it in life. I know I have rights, no need to tell me. As a white man of Southern European ancestry, I'm instantly given high social status in almost every Country I visit. Can the same be said about women? Nope.



When you're in here crying about the reversal of your precious "reproductive rights," remember that it was THAT ATTITUDE that cost you what you claimed to cherish so much.


You know what I truly cherish and get so depressed about? That the men and women my parents showed me in their pictures and in their videos are gone. Men and women who were naturally slim, whereas now almost everyone in America is obese or overweight, which is a lesser form of obesity, and the rest are either balding already in their early 20s or into their early 30s, with many being ugly as hell.

I was forced to move away from my beloved United States of America to these European lands because there's almost no attractive women in the US, there's no peace of mind because almost every owns a friking gun, and because if you ain't Anglo-Saxon the cops might just shoot you because your ancestry makes your skin colour the same skin colour Antonio Banderas got.




This country ain't your personal playground. Others get to speak up as well as Your HIghness.


Hence why I moved to here. Most women(and men) are naturally slim, the women are pretty and friendly and easy to talk to, the men aren't incel retards going on mass shootings because they can't get laid, and the President isn't an obese, ugly, bald, racist weirdo who bought every woman he's slept with, and doesn't know what he's doing.


edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: Ligyron


We're legislating to make sure women can...

Excuse me, but you're not legislating a damn thing. You're defending an action that ends a human life for convenience, somehow decided to be a 'right' by a bunch of mainly conservative men who don't have the authority to pass laws.

And in the process trying to bypass half of the population, because their voice don't count. Let's not forget that little aspect of it.


The problem is that conservative men, the segment of men who make these rules and laws with the aim to control women are deep-down, if not public about it, white Muslim men. Red pillers, incels, obese middle-aged men who like to call themselves average, wanting to call the shots and decide what women in North America are allowed to do. Probably lashing out because those same women don't want to have anything to do with them, sexually. ''Can't fook them? At least we can fook up their lives, tehehehee.''

No, the problem is you hate all men. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but right here's a conservative man who, until I had my full share of being told to go sit in the corner and shut up because I'm a man, was advocating for legal abortion to a point. That wasn't good enough for you and your ilk, so guess what my position is now?

Hint: It goes like "Go sit in the corner and shut up yourself, because you just lost,"


About the time it becomes illegal to abort?

So in Alabama right now, that's the moment of conception. Thank you.


And what rights are those...

We'll see who is screaming at the sky when your precious decision is overturned. Your tears will make my day.


You know what I truly cherish and get so depressed about? That the men and women my parents showed me in their pictures and in their videos are gone. Men and women who were naturally slim, whereas now almost everyone in America is obese or overweight, which is a lesser form of obesity, and the rest are either balding already in their early 20s or into their early 30s, with many being ugly as hell.

What the holy Hades does that have to do with abortion on demand? You are upset because people don't look like you think they should? And because of that you want women to have an abortion?

OK, I was wrong... you're not a man-hater... you're a people-hater!


I was forced to move away from my beloved United States of America to these European lands because there's almost no attractive women in the US, there's no peace of mind because almost every owns a friking gun, and because if you ain't Anglo-Saxon the cops might just shoot you because your ancestry makes your skin colour the same skin colour Antonio Banderas got.

Beauty is skin-deep; peace of mind is in your mind, and I haven't seen cops shooting anyone here where I live over skin color. Just more entitlement-induced hate.


Hence why I moved to here. Most women(and men) are naturally slim, the women are pretty and friendly and easy to talk to, the men aren't incel retards going on mass shootings because they can't get laid, and the President isn't an obese, ugly, bald, racist weirdo who bought every woman he's slept with, and doesn't know what he's doing.

Good, Stay there,

You want to say I shouldn't have a voice in my country's laws, and you don't even live here?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Good on Alabama!

So, some practical example questions for you now:
Context - A 16 year old girl, coerced into sex by a peer (so not really rape, but kind of not really not rape either), the condom broke, got pregnant, boy dumped her, has no support and doesn't want the child (for many reasons, some frivolous, some selfish, some well-reasoned - one being she doesn't want to bring the douche-bag sperm-doner's progeny into the world). She is stubborn and has stated she will find a way to abort.

Do you restrain her for 9 months and force her to have the baby?
How do you do that humanely?
If she does find a way to abort, does she deserve the death penalty or life in prison, and if not what should her punishment be?
Should one person ever be forced to be the life support for another person if they don't want to, regardless of how the situation arose?
edit on 5-6-2019 by puzzlesphere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

Alabama's ban on abortion only applies to doctors, not to the mothers.

Try again... this time try to hide your ignorance.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




Alabama's ban on abortion only applies to doctors, not to the mothers.


Do the people of Alabama, who elected the officials that enacted this law, support mothers self administering their own abortions? I mean, hey, you can learn a lot from YouTube! Amirite?

Or, do you think that targeting doctors, essentially forbidding safe and clean abortions, puts an "undue burden" on women seeking abortions?

And, while I'm at it, "Men's Rights". What rights are you demanding? Final say? The right to tell women what? They have to have a baby, or that they can't have a baby? Most of the complaints I hear from "Men's Rights" men are "How come I have to pay child support, when she made the decision? " Don't you think that if men had the final say, a lot of them would force their SO to have an abortion?

Or, do you want to force women who seek abortions to have the baby, and then take that baby away from them, because of the choice they would have made? After all, all women seeking abortion are selfish, immoral sluts, amirite?


edit on 5-6-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Well it's not even in place yet... but nice way of mining for points to argue rather than arguing the points, and avoiding answering any questions.

Yes, currently the proposed ban only applies to doctors, but as with all law the matter is never fully settled until it's actually in place and tested in a court of law, and as in Georgia and other states there is still a big question mark over exactly the issue of the woman's legal status in all this... which is why I asked those questions (you fell right into that one).

So how is self-administered abortion handled in these proposed laws? That's just overlooked? Sounds like a dangerous precedent, and incomplete legislation.

Care to have another try at answering my questions?
edit on 5-6-2019 by puzzlesphere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: Onlyyouknow

Interesting statistic... in Australia in 2016, only 146 children were actually successfully adopted, there's approx. 50,000 displaced children in Australia, seems like there's a discrepancy there. That was a good year, there's been year's with less than 50 adoptions.

Not sure that there's realistically any form of solution from the adoption angle, based on our current social systems, to solving the abortion debate.



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 03:30 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Was it Alabama that just shot down a law that would have made child marriage illegal recently? (Just checked it was louisiana). Kind of think it was just ain't sure. (At least I admit when I am wrong) But it would have raised the age to I think 16 as long as there was parental consent. If it was Alabama I think they shot down that law after passing their great no exception for rape or incest abortion ban.
I was listening to one of the female legislatures arguing for against increasing the legal age limit. It kind of sounded like her justification was that it would be better that the child (of the young victim of sexual abuse) be born in wedlock (to the person who abused the young child?)...

Bringing back shotgun weddings one bad law at a time!!


edit on 6-6-2019 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:27 AM
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I'm guessing there are a lot of people not actually looking at the reasons and the percentages.

Can be the only reason for the responses about the poor women unless the people are just talking about the combined +/- 21% mentioned all the way at the end



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

I speak for me, but I'd think I'm average: I want abortion legal to a point. I just will not accept the present legality. Roe vs. Wade must be overturned at all costs. That is the only way we can ever have a real honest discussion on this issue. That's not just a conclusion I came up with; it's a conclusion you and several others like you have forced me to come to.

You keep wanting to make this about me. Nope, it is about you. You had what you're arguing for, but you weren't satisfied and wanted more. You had a right to abortion on demand, but you wanted it as birth control up until birth. Now you get nothing and we start all over again. Maybe this time you'll be a little more reasonable and stop with telling people to go sit in the corner and shut up; if not, well, we'll see how long your position can hold out with Roe vs. Wade gone.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2019 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere


So how is self-administered abortion handled in these proposed laws? That's just overlooked? Sounds like a dangerous precedent, and incomplete legislation.

What's that position pro-abortionists take again? Oh, yeah, I remember... "it's the woman's body so no one else should have a say in what she does with it."

Take your own medicine.

TheRedneck



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