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Abortion By The Numbers

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posted on Jun, 4 2019 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

What if hitting the red button will save a child in Africa and it's up to you to hit it whenever it lights up and it's your responsibility 24/7 along with being the sole caregiver of your young toddler. But you have to be quick!! Do you take your eyes off of it to check in your child? Do you leave your post to get him something to eat? Do you go running out the door in a panic when you notice him outside heading for the street??? Or do you call social services And tell them to come get the kid because you can't take care of him your too busy saving the kids in Africa?? And how do you explain that to your kid??




posted on Jun, 4 2019 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: puzzlesphere

"Power of choice" only applies to women. And only in this one narrow instance.

For example, the father has no choice. He will pay child support whether he wanted the child or not.

Other examples....how many folks are suffering today because the government decided they knew enough about individual treatments to stifle the issuance of hydrocodone? How many folks are locked up for possession of pot? How many marriages ruined by pompous policemen trying to stop prostitution?

The arguments you are using seem only to be applied in this one narrow instance. Its a golden goose, apparently.



posted on Jun, 4 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

That's pretty simple, your priority should always be taking care of yourself and your family. The morally courageous thing is to put the care of your family above self care, as they are the future. If everyone did that, we wouldn't have many of the problems we have today. Not here, not in africa.

Your version is another take on the fat man dielmma. Imagine you have a trolly hurtling towards five people tied to the tracks. You are able to stop it by placing a large object in front of the trolly. There is a fat man nearby you could push onto the tracks. Do you do it? Do you murder one person to save 5?

Our legal system says you let the 5 die, because if you push the fat man in front of the train you go to jail for murder. Same with your analogy. If you let your kid wander into the road and get killed you have effectively murdered them and will be going to jail for manslaughter or neglect at the very least.

You should always take the do nothing route when doing something results in the death of another.



posted on Jun, 4 2019 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What one narrow instance... abortion? I think you may have missed my point. The point is that all laws, influences and emotions aside, what pregnancy is, is the symbiotic relationship of two entities. One of these entities doesn't even have thoughts yet, and has zero choice about the continuance of it's existence, in fact it greedily requires a constant stream of nutrients from the host just to survive and become independent, which the host may not want to give (the reasons are irrelevant, even if you find the concept abhorrent). The woman, or other entity, quite literally holds the "power of choice" over whether the symbiotic relationship continues at all.

Her reasons may be as frivolous as not wanting stretch marks... but it's no-one's place to force her to grow another entity, against her will, regardless of her reasons.

And yes, the father does have a choice. they can choose not to pay, and face the consequences of our laws sending them to prison. Or he can skip the country, find a remote town, and not pay that way, etc, etc... lots of choices in fact. The woman has exactly two choices with pregnancy, allow the entity to feed and grow off her life force until delivery, or terminate it.

Not a golden goose at all... what one example are you referring to? My hypothetical scenario? That is one particular example, indicative of millions of examples around the world, change the particulars and you can describe any number of similar situations. I am trying to remove emotion from the argument, and weigh the importance of the two lives in a symbiotic relationship, given the unfortunate need or desire for an abortion.

Yes, there are lots of dumb laws... your point? That you think abortion is a dumb law? OK... if abortions are illegal, what should the punishment be, and how do you force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want, who is self hurting because "she doesn't want it inside of her anymore!!!"?

Restrain her for 9 months?

How else could you assure the anti-abortionist dream of "every child birthed" is achieved?

edit on 4-6-2019 by puzzlesphere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 03:58 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: DBCowboy

You're being asked to respect the laws of the land, and the law of the land doesn't defne abortion as murder or the unborn as a person.


Screw you and the laws of the land. I disagree.


Are you also against the death penalty? What about killing civilians when they're inconveniently in the way of military operations? Are you okay with letting children go hungry if their parents are poor?



That's about the stupidest post I've seen today. Why not ask me if I like unicorns?

Jesus!



Lmao in other words" If I answer any of the questions you just presented, i'll look like a hypocrite"

P.s No one cares how you see it. The the supreme court made its decision and rightfully so.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:04 AM
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a reply to: Onlyyouknow

Not all women can take birth control either. Some women have bad reactions to it just like every other medicine.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:04 AM
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One day, Padre Pellegrino asked Padre Pio: "Father, this morning you denied absolution to a lady who confessed to an abortion. Why have you been so rigorous with this poor unfortunate? "

Padre Pio said: "The day, in which people, frightened by the economic boom, from physical damages or from economic sacrifices, will lose the horror of the abortion, it will be the most terrible day for humanity. Abortion is not only homicide but also suicide. And with these people we see on the point of committing two crimes…do we want to show our faith? Do we want to save them? "

"Why suicide?” Padre Pellegrino asked.

"You would understand this suicide of the human race, if with the eye of reason, you could see the Heart populated by old men and depopulated by children: burnt as a desert.”


edit on 5-6-2019 by Foreshadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:15 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Thoughtful response, and I know the thought experiment typology well. The difference is that in your thought experiment the participant is removed from the event, while in pregnancy each entity has a direct, physiological effect on the other.

When you boil it down, isn't most killing and taking of lives perpetuated with the intent of making other lives easier in some manner? War, agriculture, euthanasia, judicial punishment all potentially lead to death, usually to improve the lot of the killer. Isn't it then just a matter of scale and social pressures?

Not trying to get around, nor do I want to know people's reasons for aborting. It's none of my business.

What it comes down to, in the terribly unfortunate event of an unwanted conception, is that you can't force a person to go through pregnancy, supporting the life of another with their own body, if they don't want to, regardless of how they got in the predicament or their reasons for wanting to terminate.

Can you?



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:24 AM
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There's also the story of Padre Pio and the Woman who looked into the well, only to see the face of her aborted Son. I'll leave that for a future date. I hope the above quotes sink in.

Spiritual Warfare is going on, and I hope more can see it. This thing we call abortion is killing Us. It's killing the Mother's who commit it, It's killing the Father's who agree to it. It's killing friendships and family members and communities. Its killing would be fathers like me who wanted that Child, but their Ex who took it upon themselves to not notify the Man and Kill their own Child. How #ed up is that? And that was the Woman's body, "only her choice"??? Hell No...Things like that should be illegal as hell!

Pardon Me, but just reliving that and having to type that is messed up. Spose I should end it now before the booze starts talking
edit on 5-6-2019 by Foreshadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:27 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Ligyron

Why do you leftist pro-abortionist loons always have to bring religion into a rational debate?

Is it because you have no rational argument against killing a living human being?

The questions were rhetorical.






I got no problem leaving religion out of it. I still think your an idiot who needs to keep his nose out of other peoples buisness.... now what?


Do you remember life as a fetus cowboy?



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:34 AM
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originally posted by: Ligyron



Hmmm... So I guess you are alright with killing breast feeding babies too?


Err, I'm a product of the American education system as any other guy on this thread, so not that smart, but how exactly have you gone from women aborting what is essential a collection of cells without A HUMAN CONSCIENCE YET to asking me if I'm okay with women killing babies? A baby is a HUMAN BEING. It's a creature that can feel pain and happiness and desire. A fetus, UNTIL A CERTAIN POINT IN TIME, is nothing yet.



Although I agree with your basic premise, your making a lot of generalizations about a whole country of people who you've never met, most of whom, are good people. It makes you look every bit as dumb as you claim they are. Fight their idiotic statments but don't stoop to their level by labeling a whole group of people as either bad or good.


(post by TheZOGnald removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)
(post by TheZOGnald removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

if they just made it legal to pay a mother for her baby , I feel a lot of abortion would not get done. So many people want to adopt and pay a lot of money to adopt . SO if you were able to legally give the mother money for the baby on top of her expenses and medical care I think it might be a viable solution.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I made this very point in another thread and was personally vilified by the militant left.

Seems facts hurt.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Jg513
a reply to: Onlyyouknow

Not all women can take birth control either. Some women have bad reactions to it just like every other medicine.


But they can all keep their legs closed unless they are prepared to face the consequences.

If you don't want a baby, don't have unprotected sex.

Seems to me abortion has become perfect tool for practising mindless polygamy.

However, i do agree there are legitimate reasons for abortions, just these are a tiny fraction compared to the reckless and irresponsible.



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

i agree. there are so many option if you do not want to get pregnant.. why dont people use them?



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 03:50 PM
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"Power of choice" only applies to women. And only in this one narrow instance.


No. Men also have the power of choice. Men can choose to abstain from sex. Men can choose to use condoms(many men don't want to use them, or they're slack about they use and it malfunctions). Men can get a vasectomy. It's quite cheap all things considered, and if they want to have kids they can have their sperm frozen.

I'm not interested in having children as I believe I don't have the ''right'' to produce a kid, because there are nearly 8 billion men, and I don't feel my genetic material is worth passing. My chances of creating the next Cristiano Ronaldo are nearly zero, but I did have my sperm frozen at the age of 18 and got myself a vasectomy in the mean time, so who knows.



For example, the father has no choice. He will pay child support whether he wanted the child or not.


And why shouldn't the men pay for child-support whether he wanted the kid or not? That's his flesh and blood. If he was man enough to get her pregnant, he's man enough to pay for his offspring. Women have it much worse as they have to carry the baby, go through all of the drama of being pregnant, and are highly vulnerable(more vulnerable than they what usually are).




Other examples....how many folks are suffering today because the government decided they knew enough about individual treatments to stifle the issuance of hydrocodone? How many folks are locked up for possession of pot? How many marriages ruined by pompous policemen trying to stop prostitution?


Weed should be illegal, yes. It should land people in jail for selling it or for smoking it. There's tons of studies done on the harm weed does to people. Are you seriously saying that cheating on your significant other is okay? Would you like if your wife or girlfriend went out and slept with other men? It's okay if the dude's a prostitute instead of a regular dude, huh? Prostitution is wrong and disgusting. It's wrong because it exploits young, vulnerable women who have no other options in life.

Disgusting because prostitution ain't sex. It's using a woman's body for one's sense of self-pleasure. Besides, paying for sex is pathetic. If the guy can't get free sex(and yes, sex is free if you take care of your appearance) then he's better off finding other things to have fun with. Same goes for porn and for cam girls. All it is ? men abusing women.


edit on 5-6-2019 by Ligyron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: HODOSKE
a reply to: Grenade

i agree. there are so many option if you do not want to get pregnant.. why dont people use them?


Because some people are reckless and irresponsible without a moral conscience.

Besides it seems abortion is a perfectly reasonable method of birth control.

In fact some people are outraged at the idea we would even question the ethics of abortion, after-all the child has no rights while in a mothers womb.

Madness and indefensible if you ask me, it's a sad world we live in


I just can't believe the pro-choice lot have no compassion at all for an unborn child, it doesn't sit well at all that people could be so cold.
edit on 5/6/19 by Grenade because: spelling



posted on Jun, 5 2019 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: Grenade

Yes, the 100% foolproof solution is not to have sex (though the response is facetious and unproductive)... but if you've spent any time with large groups of teenagers, you understand that "no sex" is impossible... laughable, hilarious, completely unrealistic... and if you really think "If you don't want a baby, don't have unprotected sex." is an actual answer to the deep associated issues, or helps forward the conversation in any way, then you're just deluded.

Mistakes will and do happen...

... even with the best intentions, across all sections of society; and while only a few of those mistakes may be deemed "legitimate" candidates for abortion from your moral high-ground, i'm not willing to risk "legitmates" slipping through the cracks because of someone else's moral code... or for masses (70% apparently) of idiots who make bad choices and feel they need an abortion.

Is "I just don't want it inside me anymore." legitimate? If not, then what? Do we restrain her for 9 months and force her to have the child?

If she now goes out and riskily performs her own abortion, because "... she just didn't want it inside her anymore!!!", is she now a criminal, and what should her punishment be?

So what are all the legitimate reasons, vs illegitimate reasons for abortion?... what if we disagree on some of them, and how and where do we draw the arbitrary legal line?

I don't think you can adequately answer these questions, which is why, even if you don't like it, abortion must be legal.
edit on 5-6-2019 by puzzlesphere because: (no reason given)



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