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Is US debt really increasing?

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posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan


So shouldnt the real question be, who owns all that money?


Good point. I would say whoever owns the world. I am sure the answer to that question is different for many people. For me, I would have to answer the devil.



Iam not religious, but i still think that the devil fit the description very well. You would have to be pretty evil to enslave a whole planet like this... The person or persons also fits the description of an addict aswell, money is a way more powerfull drug than heroin. I dont envy the rich ...not much anyways




posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


I was thinking chickens aswell
Joking aside, in the old days you could get your moneys worth in gold. Money should be worth something, and in these global times, it should be worth exactly the same all over the world.
Couldnt money be worth time? one hour, could be worth $60 dollars or something like that.
And private banks shouldnt be the one generating them, and then lending them to us, we can NEVER repay our debt that way. I agree that borrowing money is a problem. Atleast it shouldnt be allowed to put interrest on a loan.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


The problem with money having no value, is that one million could buy you a house one day, the next it could be worth only one chicken... If we wanted, the world could take all our money, and pay of all debt. Then just change to a new currency the day after, and all that money we just paid, would be worthless.... Lots of powerfull and rich people would be very angry. But 99.9% of the world would then be debtfree, totally worth it if you ask me.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 01:04 PM
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Is US debt really increasing?



Is it real money or just "ones" and "zeros" in some Swiss data bank?



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?


Good question. Does it really matter (or make sense) that basically every single developed nation on Earth is drowning in debt?

i think a better number to focus on is how much are we owed and by whom?



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


I was thinking chickens aswell
Joking aside, in the old days you could get your moneys worth in gold. Money should be worth something, and in these global times, it should be worth exactly the same all over the world.
Couldnt money be worth time? one hour, could be worth $60 dollars or something like that.
And private banks shouldnt be the one generating them, and then lending them to us, we can NEVER repay our debt that way. I agree that borrowing money is a problem. Atleast it shouldnt be allowed to put interrest on a loan.


Well speaking of not being religious, the Bible forbids the charging of interest on a loan. So, there may be some kind of a religious issue going on here for some people. I guess Paying interest is not forbidden tho. Too bad. They had the start of something decent.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 01:33 PM
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The kicker is just who do we owe this money to And you would be surprised who. No, not the Rothchilds etc.The answer is US. We all owe ourselves this money, through the IMF, the World Bank. And who owns these entities, Oh yes US. Crazy aint it.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?


Only to those who doesn't have any



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
usdebtclock.org...


22 trillion and climbing.


If you look at that clock, the medicaid/medicare expenditures total more than Social Security payments. sounds like more money is going to the Medical and Pharma field than to the Seniors. On top of that, Medicare does not cover everything, so people are still paying premiums and copayments. That means that the average Senior Citizen is living off way less than the medical and Pharma industries as far as the government is concerned. And I see it in real life, the people around here have one dizzy spell and are stuck on meds permanently for a small temporary illness, then have to go in for test after test. I know this....because I see so many friends going in. Some do not complain and stay away from doctors., they do not want to lose their ability to do things because the meds will dope them up. I just tell the doctors I have a bad history with long term meds and I am not going to go on anything unless I really need it, I tell them I will alter my diet.

So, wonder why we are so far in debt in this country, because someone is making old people scared, just like the young people.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?


Yeah, you're right. Who needs it? PM me, we'll arrange for you to send all of yours to me.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


I was thinking chickens aswell
Joking aside, in the old days you could get your moneys worth in gold. Money should be worth something, and in these global times, it should be worth exactly the same all over the world.
Couldnt money be worth time? one hour, could be worth $60 dollars or something like that.
And private banks shouldnt be the one generating them, and then lending them to us, we can NEVER repay our debt that way. I agree that borrowing money is a problem. Atleast it shouldnt be allowed to put interrest on a loan.


Well speaking of not being religious, the Bible forbids the charging of interest on a loan. So, there may be some kind of a religious issue going on here for some people. I guess Paying interest is not forbidden tho. Too bad. They had the start of something decent.


Didnt know that. I did know that muslims forbids it aswell (or have something similar, in their religion).
If i can find a religion or cult that forbids me to pay interest, i might just join



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: LookingAtMars

It will not change because it is political suicide.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?


Good question. Does it really matter (or make sense) that basically every single developed nation on Earth is drowning in debt?

i think a better number to focus on is how much are we owed and by whom?


Key is how much of GDP is the debt. Obama increased the national debt significantly. $10.6 trillion in total debt and left with the country owing $19.9 trillion. That’s an average tab of $1.16 trillion a year.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?


Good question. Does it really matter (or make sense) that basically every single developed nation on Earth is drowning in debt?

i think a better number to focus on is how much are we owed and by whom?


Key is how much of GDP is the debt. Obama increased the national debt significantly. $10.6 trillion in total debt and left with the country owing $19.9 trillion. That’s an average tab of $1.16 trillion a year.


But.. but Bush! And coincidentally as soon as the economy started going well, under Trump, then it was Obama's economy.
and people actually believe this crap.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
The debt is going up.

The scariest thing on the debt clock is this:

There should be more of us actually paying taxes.


Should there? According to your clock there, 181,885 per taxpayer and 67,900 per citizen would mean that there are 2.68 citizens for every tax payer, 37.8% of people pay taxes.

Sounds bad right? Well, consider that 31% of the US population is 18 or younger, and as such likely isn't paying any taxes, and if you expand this to include college students above 18 (who are also usually unemployed) the number jumps to 36%. Then, consider that out of people who aren't in that group, about 25% of people in the US are either retired with tax free income or are married on a single family income, you end up with 56% of the population that doesn't pay income taxes simply because they aren't working at all (and also aren't collecting any benefits).

Add these two groups up and you have 94% of the population accounted for. Meaning your "freeloaders" make up 6% of the population at the very most.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: DAVID64

You are probable right, but tax revenue is at an all time high and the economy is said to be growing.

I just find it odd that the two clocks have such a large discrepancy.



Actually, tax revenue is falling. We are having significant shortfalls at the moment, where we are bringing in much less in key months than we have in the past several years. We are doing this in a time where spending is also increasing.

Essentially, we are committing two cardinal sins at the moment, which are lowering rates, and increasing spending while the economy is growing. When the next bubble hits, the only way we will be able to recover is to jump from $1 trillion deficits to $5 trillion by taking interest rates negative and really opening the floodgates on spending.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


I was thinking chickens aswell
Joking aside, in the old days you could get your moneys worth in gold. Money should be worth something, and in these global times, it should be worth exactly the same all over the world.
Couldnt money be worth time? one hour, could be worth $60 dollars or something like that.
And private banks shouldnt be the one generating them, and then lending them to us, we can NEVER repay our debt that way. I agree that borrowing money is a problem. Atleast it shouldnt be allowed to put interrest on a loan.


Ahh, a supporter of Communism I see. All time/labor is worth the same per hour.

By the way, there is not enough gold in the world (mined or in reserves) to cover the value of money in just the US much less the rest of the world. You could take every precious metal on earth plus all oil reserves in the world and that would just about get you to the value of USD out there, but everyone else would be left with nothing.

Backing currency with goods is not at all realistic.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

Does money even matter anymore?
If you want to eat and live, yes.


Didnt know you could eat money, i never ate any money, and i still live?

They only matter, because human beings, generally are pretty stupid.. Money is worth NOTHING, but we still use it to trade... No wonder the world is in a huge debt to someone or somebody....



Would you rather buy a car with chickens?
Money is a perfect way to trade merchandise.
The ability to borrow money is the problem.


I was thinking chickens aswell
Joking aside, in the old days you could get your moneys worth in gold. Money should be worth something, and in these global times, it should be worth exactly the same all over the world.
Couldnt money be worth time? one hour, could be worth $60 dollars or something like that.
And private banks shouldnt be the one generating them, and then lending them to us, we can NEVER repay our debt that way. I agree that borrowing money is a problem. Atleast it shouldnt be allowed to put interrest on a loan.


Well speaking of not being religious, the Bible forbids the charging of interest on a loan. So, there may be some kind of a religious issue going on here for some people. I guess Paying interest is not forbidden tho. Too bad. They had the start of something decent.


Didnt know that. I did know that muslims forbids it aswell (or have something similar, in their religion).
If i can find a religion or cult that forbids me to pay interest, i might just join


Not 100% on Christian/Jewish teachings on this, but I think both of them are supposed to completely forbid interest. Muslim teachings are that interest is allowed because it defines usury slightly differently. In the Muslim world usury not only refers to interest rates but to the concept of money charging interest on money. So instead their banking system works buy buying a product for someone who wants a loan, charging a premium for that product as the price of the loan, and then letting the person repay that value in order to own the product. They allow loans, but they do not allow compound interest.



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: DAVID64

You are probable right, but tax revenue is at an all time high and the economy is said to be growing.

I just find it odd that the two clocks have such a large discrepancy.



Actually, tax revenue is falling. We are having significant shortfalls at the moment, where we are bringing in much less in key months than we have in the past several years. We are doing this in a time where spending is also increasing.

Essentially, we are committing two cardinal sins at the moment, which are lowering rates, and increasing spending while the economy is growing. When the next bubble hits, the only way we will be able to recover is to jump from $1 trillion deficits to $5 trillion by taking interest rates negative and really opening the floodgates on spending.



Revenue is actually increasing 1/3 rd of government revenue is payroll taxes. Income taxes contribute $1.822 trillion, over half of the total. Another third, $1.295 trillion, comes from your payroll taxes. with low unemployment revenue increases currently according to the budget office government's annual income only pays for 77% of spending. So we finance 23 percent of the current budget. believe it or not this is an improvement over Bush and Obama tax cuts. where they ended up financing up to 38 percent of their budgets. Currently, revenue collected equals 16.3% of gross domestic product. in other words, this is effectively what the US government collects as its tax rate. Roughly about 3.44 trillion in 2019 and expected to increase to 3.64 by 2020.


What does this mean exactly? Well it means that even though the debt sounds really scary its really not that bad. economy wise the US is well within debt to income ratio unlike other countries in the world. However, having said that now would be a good time to reduce the debt while the economy is showing strong economic growth. however, three ways to do this you can decrease spending, increase taxes or set policies that cause wage growth. As payrolls increase the more money the government can spend. By the way increasing corporate tax rates does not produce more revenue like certain people have suggested. It has the opposite effect actually as corporations pay higher taxes they decrease payrolls which lowers US govt income. So when you have people arguing businesses need to pay more they simply don't understand taxes. To give you an idea corporations for 2019 will pay 256 billion in taxes. Around 7 percent of the money US govt takes in.
edit on 6/2/19 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2019 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The main issue with corporate taxes is that you can't really race to the bottom, even if you offer a 0% corporate tax rate, some country will come by and offer a negative tax rate (some already do this actually). I would be all in favor of funding the government 100% through income taxes, cut every single other tax, and set up an actually sane progressive tax structure.

As far as tax revenues go, Trumps tax cuts haven't been in place long enough to really see any sort of an effect on a year to year basis. But, wages are still stagnant (despite "full" employment), key months that serve as economic indicators are bringing in less money than in previous years such as June 2018 vs June 2017, and already high inflation is getting higher thanks to tariffs. Noteworthy there, is that inflation can make tax revenues appear higher, although that's only because it makes the numbers larger rather than taking into account what the numbers actually buy.

Also, I wouldn't trust those 2020 numbers. This administration has been caught playing a bit loose with the numbers on more than one occasion.
edit on 2-6-2019 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)




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