For all you Pro-Choicers

a reply to: JoeGee

When did freedom of choice become a western thing? Do you really believe that?

You shouldn’t, because it’s false.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

....again, did not say that...Are you even reading my posts? Where are you getting your information from? FAKE NEWS! lol

Procreation is a freedom everyone in the world enjoys, east and west.

the freedom of choice and will is a freedom only we enjoy in the west.

That is what I said repeatedly.

For example, in China, they have the freedom to give birth, but their freedom of choice to have more than 1 child is hindered. Back to what I said, though the freedom of procreation is hindered, it is a guaranteed freedom given to humanity by nature. Choice and will is a freedom given by man, not by god. Hence why our founding fathers had to fight for their freedoms and bestow it upon us.

originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: JoeGee

originally posted by: Nyiah
How good a life do you seriously think a teenager could have made for the long-term with a baby or child support garnishments in the mix? I had a cheap studio apartment at 17, ramen or rice for damn near every meal, and could barely afford THAT on minimum wage FT. In no way, shape or form would having had a baby at that age have been feasible or justifiable. That would have been abject poverty whether or not I had a SO to share the monetary problems with.

And this is what separates those that will sacrifice and persevere to make it and those that are content with their lives and don't want to change and will avoid any potential hardache as long as they stay content.

Pretty much, we are moving more and more towards the generation of "Me..Me.MEEEEEEEE". The sad fact is that what those are trying to maintain are actually robbing themselves of the singular purpose in life.

The concept is FAR from new. It goes back ages. There are plenty of voluntarily child-free people in every generation, including numerous posters spanning a gamut of age ranges you interact with on here, who'd be pretty damn offended by the insinuation that their ONLY purpose in life is to breed.

Not everyone wants a Duggar Village's worth of kids.
Not everyone wants a baker's dozen.
Not everyone wants half a dozen.
Not everyone wants three (including me)
Not everyone wants more than one.
Some don't want any at ALL.

You're being extremely presumptuous to call it their "singular purpose" in life. You have no idea what billions of individuals think their actual purpose in life is.

originally posted by: JoeGee
For example, in China, they have the freedom to give birth, but their freedom of choice to have more than 1 child is hindered.

Ugh, god dammit, this myth again.
No, it is not. My stepmother is from China, and has an older sister. Their parents were not rich, utilized no loopholes, and were not fined. That law is A.) Not in place anymore to begin with, and B.) Wasn't anywhere near as widely enforced as the west believes.

a reply to: JoeGee

You;

the freedom of will and choice is only a freedom we have in the Western world.

Me;

When did freedom of choice become a western thing? Do you really believe that?

You;

again, did not say that...Are you even reading my posts? Where are you getting your information from? FAKE NEWS! lol

Strange...

Because, you did. Including in the very same post you’re saying that you never did. Let me jog your memory...

You again;

the freedom of choice and will is a freedom only we enjoy in the west.

Did your brain malfunction? Or are you calling yourself “FAKE NEWS”?

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: MisterSpock

originally posted by: JoeGee

originally posted by: Nyiah
How good a life do you seriously think a teenager could have made for the long-term with a baby or child support garnishments in the mix? I had a cheap studio apartment at 17, ramen or rice for damn near every meal, and could barely afford THAT on minimum wage FT. In no way, shape or form would having had a baby at that age have been feasible or justifiable. That would have been abject poverty whether or not I had a SO to share the monetary problems with.

And this is what separates those that will sacrifice and persevere to make it and those that are content with their lives and don't want to change and will avoid any potential hardache as long as they stay content.

Pretty much, we are moving more and more towards the generation of "Me..Me.MEEEEEEEE". The sad fact is that what those are trying to maintain are actually robbing themselves of the singular purpose in life.

The concept is FAR from new. It goes back ages. There are plenty of voluntarily child-free people in every generation, including numerous posters spanning a gamut of age ranges you interact with on here, who'd be pretty damn offended by the insinuation that their ONLY purpose in life is to breed.

Not everyone wants a Duggar Village's worth of kids.
Not everyone wants a baker's dozen.
Not everyone wants half a dozen.
Not everyone wants three (including me)
Not everyone wants more than one.
Some don't want any at ALL.

You're being extremely presumptuous to call it their "singular purpose" in life. You have no idea what billions of individuals think their actual purpose in life is.

Biologically, it is the singular purpose of human life. You're free to contort yourself around that and find an out. But it's undeniable.

That's all I stated, which is correct, since I'm not factoring in any other aspect of human life(philosophy, spirituality, etc).

A human animal(we are) that fails to reproduce and pass on it's genetic material is a failure when it comes to basic biology. Sorry to break that to you.

a reply to: Nyiah

And the end of the day, what good would any writting, any painting, any work of music, anything matter...if you don't "breed" and our future can enjoy it...?

originally posted by: JoeGee
a reply to: Nyiah

And the end of the day, what good would any writting, any painting, any work of music, anything matter...if you don't "breed" and our future can enjoy it...?

I think this rock has more than enough people on it to meet that need. And is in zero danger of a population contraction at any point -- we're doing just fine. Since when is 7 billion a small number??

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Okay, i'm just going to assume it's a little early for you and you haven't fully woken up yet.

You

I’d personally say the greatest thing God gave all of us was free will and choice. I guess you feel differently.

Me

You forget that only the western world enjoys those freedoms, the rest of the world does not.

You

Abortions are available across the world and have nothing to do with western freedoms.

Me

You were saying, to quote "greatest thing God gave all of us was free will and choice"...I would disagree because the point I'm making is that the freedom of will and choice is only a freedom we have in the Western world. I'm not saying abortion is unavalible in the rest of the world

You

When did freedom of choice become a western thing?

Me

Procreation is a freedom everyone in the world enjoys, east and west.

the freedom of choice and will is a freedom only we enjoy in the west.

Me again

Hence why our founding fathers had to fight for their freedoms and bestow it upon us, because freedom was not granted to them naturally.

I'll send you a cup of coffee to wake you up and digest that fake news. Or maybe you're the one with the malfunctioning brain... :/

a reply to: Nyiah

Nailed it.

The only thing I’d add to your point is that choosing to have children is probably the most “me, me, meeeee” thing anyone could ever do.

Unless someone is delusional enough to think they’re doing the world a service by having kids, but while not a selfish “me, me, meeee” decision, it’s still very problematic for other reasons. Like grandeur and a sense of self importance.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Wouldn't it be the contrary, Pro-choice is the ME ME ME movement? My choice, my body? Me Me Me?

Nice story, but the fact is that if abortion was illegal back when the women you were with at the time had theirs they likely still would have had them -- only they would have been dark alley abortions and not only would the fetuses been aborted but the women would be at great risk of losing their lives as well. Or the children could have possibly even survived a botched abortion and been born to a life of tremendous pain and misery. One of my childhood friends I grew up with was such a case. He's dead now. Suicide.

There are few practices in this world that darken my heart more than abortion, but in life you have to think beyond your own emotions and consider all the angles and think pragmatically.

If the right really wants to make an aspect of abortion illegal then why not create legislation that makes it illegal to put up billboards promoting abortion? I don't think abortion should be illegal for the reason I just stated -- because they will happen regardless so it is something that needs to be made safe as possible and put in the hands of professionals. However, the idea of promoting abortion as this almost divine act makes me ill to no end. Especially when you consider that the majority of the left's abortion promotional campaigns are directed largely at African American communities. It is essentially a state-sponsored soft genocide and it is beyond revulsion.

I'd like to see you go to Saudi Arabia and then tell me how much freedom of choice and will you have. Can't argue that point. The freedom of choice and will is not a god-given natural freedom. It's a freedom you and I fight for every day and a freedom (if you live in America) our founding fathers had to die for.

Not even to sound cliche...That's literally how it went down.

a reply to: Nyiah

So proves my point further, procreation is the only natural freedom that cannot be taken away

a reply to: JoeGee

I moved past abortion choices once you said that wasn’t your point.

Your elaboration is still nonsense

You;

the freedom of choice and will is a freedom only we enjoy in the west.

I’ll ask you once more... not in regards to abortion at all.

When did freedom of choice become a western thing?

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
I’ll ask you once more... not in regards to abortion at all.

When did freedom of choice become a western thing?

July 4th, 1776 Declaration of Independance

March 16, 1791 The Rights of Man

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: Nyiah

Nailed it.

The only thing I’d add to your point is that choosing to have children is probably the most “me, me, meeeee” thing anyone could ever do.

Unless someone is delusional enough to think they’re doing the world a service by having kids, but while not a selfish “me, me, meeee” decision, it’s still very problematic for other reasons. Like grandeur and a sense of self importance.

I do agree there. Like any other justification given for anything else, "I always wanted", "I like/love" and so forth always boil down to egotistical slants. Meaning what mom and/or dad wanted or didn't want, depending on family structure (married or not, serial baby-daddies/baby-mamas, etc)
Massive families aren't better than small ones, small ones aren't worse, they just have a much different footprint on the planet over time, especially when it's a continuing big family size tradition. That adds up to a LOT of people over 100 years from the original two.

originally posted by: JoeGee

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
I’ll ask you once more... not in regards to abortion at all.

When did freedom of choice become a western thing?

July 4th, 1776 Declaration of Independance

March 16, 1791 The Rights of Man

In an unwitting, yet direct way, you just shot huge holes through the idea of "god-given" rights people in the US spout off about. Nice to know someone understands a piece of paper and not a god granted it.

a reply to: JoeGee

Unless you have written consent from your sperm, then the decision to have children is yours. And no one else’s.

You either have children for your own gratification, or because you think the wider world should be grateful that you ejaculated.

Or, as you just put it, Me Me Me!