The US and the war against China. (Mobile / computer tech).

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: projectvxn

So you are somewhat agreeing that global free trade based on national capitalism should be stomped out?

I agree, any free trade that does not benefit the United States should be reevaluated. and renegotiated.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: RadioRobert

It seems to be based on the 5G technology tho.

Honestly, this is becoming more and more complex. And i have noticed a tone towards 5G on ATS lately, something is up, but I still stand by what I have been saying, that it's not just the Chinese making these phones. Is it the phones themselves, or the technology behind them?
What does it matter on a global free market who comes up with the next technology to boost us beyond what we have now?

Yes.
5G. Which is complex, controversial, and many do not fully understand, including myself.

But you hit it on the nose. It very much is (seemingly) all pertinent to 5G.

a reply to: strongfp

The world doesn't revolve around the USA.

It sort of does... To the extent that it doesn't, it also doesn't revolve around the Turtle's Republic of China, either.

I do not understand why the US is being singled out here with animosity, but sit back and ponder how this has progressed.

At first, other countries seemed taken aback, even a little confused, and some near outraged over the Huawei CFO arrest. This has transitioned over months to no sounds from other countries of disgust, alarm, over concern over said ban. Instead, the count of businesses and countries now backing away from Huawei like a crazy uncle continues to add up, not any country speaking out in their defense.

10/17/18 Source

Skolkovo also signed an agreement with the Chinese telecoms behemoth Huawei on setting up a joint innovations centre. The centre will focus on areas including developing algorithms for 5G wireless systems and the Internet of Things, and on using artificial intelligence to process media including images, sound and video. The Skolkovo Institute of Science and Technology (Skoltech) will also set up a joint laboratory with Huawei under the agreement, focusing on artificial intelligence and machine learning, the Internet of Things, and quantum computing, among other things. In another sign of Chinese-Russian cooperation, the Russia-China Investment Fund (RCIF) pledged to invest 1.5 billion rubles ($23 million) in the three funds of Skolkovo Ventures, the foundation’s investment platform, and will also be the anchor investor in two new Skolkovo Ventures funds, putting a total of 300 million rubles into them.

12/06/18
www.google.com...

Meng Wanzhou, also known as Sabrina Meng and Cathy Meng, was apprehended in Vancouver on December 1, according to Canadian Justice Department spokesman Ian McLeod. In addition to her role as CFO, Meng serves as deputy chairwoman of Huawei's board. She's the daughter of Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei.

Here’s a few hints of dots I see:

1. Russia reset
2. US tech partnerships with Russia / Skolkovo Foundation / Skoltech
3. 2014 FBI warning to US companies regarding partnership with Russia tech companies
4. 2016 election
5. 2018 Skolkovo - Huawei partnership
6. 2018 Huawei CFO arrest

TIME is now referring to this as the “5G War” so hopefully people will begin to recognize this isn’t so much about trade wars or phones but the future of 5G, A.I., and SECURITY.

TIME

This is a fight over who will build and lead innovation for the next generation of internet and telecommunications technology, which is called 5G. 1G was the tech that enabled us to make wireless phone calls; 2G brought texting capabilities; 3G delivered web browsing to the phone-wielding masses; 4G made wireless video-streaming a reality, and through its constant connection to GPS satellites enabled the rise of companies like Uber. We are currently living in a 4G world, but the transition to 5G is just getting started and will accelerate over the next couple of years. 5G, however, will be different than previous mobile upgrades; for one thing, data will move about 100 times faster. But it will also handle far more data, with far lower lag times, than ever before. It is really about machine-to-machine communications. Think billions of connected gadgets—commonly referred to as “the internet of things,” which means everything from washing machines to self-driving cars to entire “smart cities.”

... the Trump administration has argued that allowing Huawei equipment into the guts of global 5G networks could allow Beijing to access the streams of data that will be passing through the company’s hardware, leaving American companies and citizens susceptible to spying. The other argument that the US administration is making is that building 5G networks with Huawei networking gear equipment could leave them vulnerable to an infrastructure attack should the US and China ever actually go to war—imagine if China responds to a volley of US missiles by bringing down the US electrical grid.

Emphasis mine.

This needed addressed and it’s (publicly and privately) being addressed. What is the OP’s issue?

This started in the early 2000s with the discovery of spy-chips embedded in system boards
Which begot CFIUS and somewhat HIPAA
Never a war on tech .
A protection .
Defense.

Europe should also take note, all US companies just do what the US government orders them (also with spying) and it's like blackmail. Not only sanctions but using google, MS and so on to destroy competition. Not even proof of that Huawei used their hardware for spying, the US got caught many times, on EU countries&leaders.
When Europe would use Huawei equipment the US can't as easy spy on their 'friends' of course as well without US hardware.

Lol free trade uh?

Interesting what China will do, maybe they don't allow US companies use their rare metals (for making chips and so on) or make them crazy expensive.

Same with those sanctions, the US walks away from for example the nuclear agreement with Iran and forbids any other country buying oil or whatever, if not the US sanctions country's or company's from like the EU who still do business. A nice dictator uh?

Most likely the US is kinda broke and will do anything trying to keep their power and so you see crazy stuff like this happening more and more.
Forget morals - what's right or not, it's just business/power, how and with what means it's not important.

The problem is that Huawei kit does NOT have GCHQ/NSA backdoor capabilities.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: projectvxn

So you are somewhat agreeing that global free trade based on national capitalism should be stomped out?

Sorry I'm not falling for your pro commie bait.

originally posted by: Pluginn
Europe should also take note, all US companies just do what the US government orders them (also with spying) and it's like blackmail. Not only sanctions but using google, MS and so on to destroy competition. Not even proof of that Huawei used their hardware for spying, the US got caught many times, on EU countries&leaders.
When Europe would use Huawei equipment the US can't as easy spy on their 'friends' of course as well without US hardware.

Lol free trade uh?

Interesting what China will do, maybe they don't allow US companies use their rare metals (for making chips and so on) or make them crazy expensive.

Same with those sanctions, the US walks away from for example the nuclear agreement with Iran and forbids any other country buying oil or whatever, if not the US sanctions country's or company's from like the EU who still do business. A nice dictator uh?

Most likely the US is kinda broke and will do anything trying to keep their power and so you see crazy stuff like this happening more and more.
Forget morals - what's right or not, it's just business/power, how and with what means it's not important.

I thought this thread was about Chinese tech .
?

a reply to: Gothmog

No more about US abusing their power.

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: projectvxn

So you are somewhat agreeing that global free trade based on national capitalism should be stomped out?

Sorry I'm not falling for your pro commie bait.

It's not bait. It was taking what you said and pointing out that you want free trade and company's like google to be put down in the name of national security.

You can use your McCarthyism on me all you want, but I'm not a communist. But I also don't ignore that the communism in all it's failures should not be completely dismissed.

a reply to: strongfp

It's not bait. It was taking what you said and pointing out that you want free trade and company's like google to be put down in the name of national security

I guess we should have kept trading with the Germans and Japanese during WW2?

Global trade is ALWAYS at the mercy of national interests precisely because of the damage they can do to the people. The government's principle charge is to protect the American people and the interests of the United States of America. You don't allow antagonistic governments to gain a permanent intelligence foothold in your country; that is stupid.

The fact that you're trying to play this obtuse game with me, pretending you don't understand what's at stake just so you can spread more communist propaganda while denying that you are a commie, is interesting. Every political or economic thread you participate in you root for communism..But you're not a commie.

Yeah ok, comrade.

communism in all it's failures should not be completely dismissed.

You don't read what you type do you? Quoted for continued irony.

a reply to: projectvxn

This isn't the mud pit. And I haven't mentioned communist rhetoric once in this thread until you started veering my position on this situation into one. I was actually trying to protect free trade and capitalist models. Just because I don't out right deny Marxist ideas and criticism, doesn't mean I want a full communist world, it's ridiculous.
Your obsession with painting me a communist is rather disheartening considering I like to talk politics, not just stomp out ideas and wave the big ol' Capitalism flag over them.

Also, you aren't in armed conflict with China. And backdoor tech isn't anything new. This is US government doing what government shouldn't do to their own business' control them not so land of the free when you can tell google to just stop business.

a reply to: strongfp

Also, you aren't in armed conflict with China. And backdoor tech isn't anything new.

Do you want Chinese backdoors on US bases?

We don't have to be in armed conflict to protect from Chinese spying. This is protecting from Chinese spying.

This isn't the mud pit. And I haven't mentioned communist rhetoric once in this thread until you started veering my position on this situation into one.

You said:

So you are somewhat agreeing that global free trade based on national capitalism should be stomped out?

Clearly an attempt at bait here.

You're making this discussion purposefully difficult by being obtuse and playing games like you don't understand how national security works. You act as though Chinese communists installing spying hardware and software on digital infrastructure and products isn't a problem. You're painting China as though it were a victim in all of this when they are, in fact, the aggressor.

In all of your indignation, you continue to defend a communist regime and you try to bait me into agreeing with your communist propaganda.

But hey, it's not the mud pit, right? It's not right to call you out for BS in your own thread, right?

a reply to: projectvxn

The government's principle charge is to protect the American people and the interests of the United States of America.

Kinda like the US now want's to sanction EU Firms who are working with the Russians on a gas pipeline coming from Russia.
We must buy US liquid gas instead or we face sanctions! The sanctions against Russia cost the US nothing (no trade), for Europe it costs hundreds of billions (the fools).

Yea just protecting US interest telling others far away what they must do or else, bullying, threatening. If a country could/would do the same at the US it would mean war.

I think rhe communists in China should srop eating soft rice by helping the evil capitalists. China should definitely stop trading with the US who is being so unfair to them. They can find some other untapped market for their overcapacity industries to dump product in to receive hard currency. That will teach the US...

So you are somewhat agreeing that global free trade based on national capitalism should be stomped out?

Well, if they don't go the embargo route, China should definitely drop their decades old protectionist tariffs preventing foreign companies from accessing the chinese consumer market, I guess. Is that what we're talking about? True free trade?

a reply to: projectvxn

There's no proof they are actually doing any of this. In fact if you did a little research it was the lack of spying hardware that keeps other nations from wanting the company selling their stuff because the NSA CAN'T control what people are looking at and control where data is stored.
You're very clever and switching and manipulating others statements and words. I never outright defended China, I was defending Huaweis business model to sell products outside of the Asian market. I wasn't bringing communism into any of this, you did. Stop twisting the conversation to make me look like the bad guy.

I am for global free market and trade, if a business wants to do deals in another nation, all power to them, but it takes a nations capitalist model to be let free to make the decisions since capitalism cannot really work in a global free market.
If you understood the flow of conversation and reading comprehension you'd know that my statement was focusing on YOU targeting the global free market to be almost abolished in favor of the US. I understand the US has interests and wants security, but then again the bully in this whole trade was the instigator is the US, and now they are dragging down US company's and consumers who want these devices and such to just give it up, o well here buy an iPhone or Samsung device, which isn't even made in the US. They're made in CHINA! Ban those as well?

Also it was only bait because you're hell bent on labeling me a communist and only focus on that for some reason. And China isn't even really communist anymore. So how about stop harassing me with McCarthyism, picking apart my posts and twisting them, and focus on the subjects.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Well, if they don't go the embargo route, China should definitely drop their decades old protectionist tariffs preventing foreign companies from accessing the chinese consumer market, I guess. Is that what we're talking about? True free trade?

They are only protectionists because they are almost entirely state controlled population. But it's slowly being lifted. The biggest market for GMs Buick line is China right now, the biggest market for wine is China, there's several markets that thrive in the Chinese market. But then again, they boast the controlled state, unlike the US which has boasted their freedom and consumer purchasing power. It's rather hypocritical.

Wake up people.

This is all about Trump being told by the NSA to ensure that rather than the US citizens buy Huawei phones that are made in China, with chinese computer chips in them and run with chinese software that allows the Chinese communist party to spy on US citizens conversations, they are forced to buy Google and Apple phones that have US government spyware, backdoors and viruses in the software that allow the NSA to spy on US citizens instead.

This is not about YOUR national security, its about THEIR national security.

They only want you to be able to buy and use phones that they have the ability to monitor.

Think I am joking ?

Wake up.

www.theguardian.com...