Ford cuts 7K white-collar jobs

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Bluntone22

The only thing really preventing EVs from taking over is pricing right now.

Well, the price is one thing, but the spontaneous combustion and complete vehicle fires/meltdowns probably don't help lol.

Cheers - Dave

Any Tesla that catches fire is a news story, but ICE cars burn to the ground daily... listen to any rush hour report any day of the week.

I guess Paul Walker was riding in an electric Porsche...

There must be hundreds of videos on youtube of cars being englufed in flames at gas stations....

Just saying...

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: Edumakated

Thinking about it l, we're literally around the corner from EV.

If anything, we might start seeing a hybridization of EV and Gas.

This way, EV covers the basics, but Gas will be a premium as we slowly ween ourselves off it

Face it, if the oil industry was really this super bad guy suppressing gas saving tech, Elon wouldn't have never been allowed to operate this far.

No, we are at a precipace with which we can see REAL CHANGE, however subtle it may be, it's a "don't blink" or you'll miss it type deal.

It will be a slow change, but people will come around. Once you've driven a Tesla, you have a hard time going back to ICE cars.

I don't even buy the "green" benefits... electric is just better.

I don't think tesla will be around when the change takes place.
Musk will bankrupt them pretty soon.

Don't know... I think they may get acquired. The product is just too good even if they are hemorrhaging cash.

a reply to: Edumakated


It's possible they get acquired but I don't think any car company will want to take on Tesla's debt.

Also,
One thing I think people don't realize is when/if the change ever happens every state in the union will have a big electric car tax.
States will not like losing gas tax and sales tax income.

On a side note..
How does air conditioning effect the range of electrics?
Like say in 100* Arizona.

Heaters too. Can't imagine that a tesla in Minnesota at -20 would fair to well.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Cold isn't great for battery range, but it doesn't affect it appreciably enough to be a concern. Tesla's are a dime a dozen here in Chicago. I have several neighbors with them and they all rave about them. We had temps of -20+ last winter.

Same with air conditions / heating.

Again, the range is far enough that for 99% of people there is zero chance of running out of juice. Most people are driving at most 30 miles a day. Even if you are driving 100 miles a day (which is a lot by the way), you still aren't even at 50% of battery use.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Bluntone22

The only thing really preventing EVs from taking over is pricing right now.

Well, the price is one thing, but the spontaneous combustion and complete vehicle fires/meltdowns probably don't help lol.

Cheers - Dave

Any Tesla that catches fire is a news story, but ICE cars burn to the ground daily... listen to any rush hour report any day of the week.

I guess Paul Walker was riding in an electric Porsche...

There must be hundreds of videos on youtube of cars being englufed in flames at gas stations....

Just saying...

If I am going to be involved in an imolation, I would prefer it didn't involve lithium batteries lol

Cheers - Dave

Did you guys miss the whole thing where Apple might buy Tesla?


Anyway...

I foresee a new technology keeping ICE vehicles alive in the near future.
By 2150 we will absolutely be off of combustion engines.
However, very soon, I predict a black swan shift for combustion engine fuel. Something very interesting is going to happen, look forward to it.
I'll be driving my ICE vehicle throughout the 2020's. My personal carbon footprint is much smaller than most, so I don't feel guilty about it at all. I enjoy what I have, and I don't envy what I don't.

a reply to: Edumakated

I am not opposed to EV's although there is discussion to the effect their net carbon cost is actually higher because of the power plants that are needed to recharge them.

I have looked at the data and have confirmed they are reporting the "average" commute is 16 miles; but that average doesnt mean a lot. I have never known anyone in Texas to have a commute, one way to work, under 34 miles. Most are comming in at about 45 miles one way.

The other problem is that there simply isnt, at least not in Texas ANY recharging infrastructure either at work places or in between home and work.

But you are quite correct, its the cost of the EV's that is turning people off. Another oddity is that I would guess that for every "car" that is purchased, more than one truck or giant breadbox SUV is purchased. Its just a question of what people want.

The real solution, IMHO, is.....telecommuting. I mean, really, with Facetime and other video conferencing and the internet.......why are people having to drive to an office everyday? Just to give supervisors the joy of keeping their thumbs on the peasants?

7000 I a drop in the bucket they will get severance worth a years wages give or take. Enjoy the summer off things are good for job seekers right now. We have almost 150 openings in our company right in our town. I'm done in August probably so they can have my job

a reply to: Bluntone22

Autonomous vehicles … well those are the vehicles for the younger / maybe less educated about driving generation(s) to buy.

Go them!

Hopefully that will be the 'driver' leading to the the older not-autonomous used vehicles to come down in price, and insurance costs.

My generation - winning! ? Hope so. No more cash for clunkers though … that significantly damaged the used vehicle and auto parts market at taxpayer (like - my!) expense. Ugh.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Edumakated

I am not opposed to EV's although there is discussion to the effect their net carbon cost is actually higher because of the power plants that are needed to recharge them.

I have looked at the data and have confirmed they are reporting the "average" commute is 16 miles; but that average doesnt mean a lot. I have never known anyone in Texas to have a commute, one way to work, under 34 miles. Most are comming in at about 45 miles one way.

The other problem is that there simply isnt, at least not in Texas ANY recharging infrastructure either at work places or in between home and work.

But you are quite correct, its the cost of the EV's that is turning people off. Another oddity is that I would guess that for every "car" that is purchased, more than one truck or giant breadbox SUV is purchased. Its just a question of what people want.

The real solution, IMHO, is.....telecommuting. I mean, really, with Facetime and other video conferencing and the internet.......why are people having to drive to an office everyday? Just to give supervisors the joy of keeping their thumbs on the peasants?

I agree about the telecommuting. Companies are just set in their ways although some are coming around. My wife was recently offered an executive position that allowed her to work from home (Company based in CT, but she could work anywhere). She's come across multiple positions like this...

Part of what is driving it is that I think companies are finding a lot of people don't want to relocate and it makes it hard to hire the best candidates without that flexibility to work from home.

The "green" aspect of EVs really isn't something I care about. I could careless. EVs are just better tech than ICE cars. Better performance. Lower maintenance and better reliability.

When a CUV style car comes out that isn't $75,000 I think more people will jump on the bandwagon. Audi and Jaguar have their tesla killer cars but they are just as expensive and they have kind of half-assed their launch.

I look forward to a drastic decrease in pricing for all manufacturers, in the very near future. They have currently outpriced the market value and people are hesitant thinking they are going to buy something that is rapidly changing and may rapidly lose value as the new electric vehicles go mainstream.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Like I said, more efficient and less pollutant technology, means less parts, and less oil required. This means less jobs required. It has to hurt for a change. EV is the future you can't deny it, US is long overdue from that.

originally posted by: charlyv
I look forward to a drastic decrease in pricing for all manufacturers, in the very near future. They have currently outpriced the market value and people are hesitant thinking they are going to buy something that is rapidly changing and may rapidly lose value as the new electric vehicles go mainstream.

The entire world is forcing gas vehicles out. US has no choice but to follow suit or get shut down forever. Just waiting for the day to trading in my gas vehicle for discount. The only vehicles that are staying are historical ones probably from collectors like Jay Leno or museums. Welcome to the 22nd Century.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Because Truth be told, people not only don't need new cars, the manufacturers aren't selling many/enough

Timestamp: Friday, May 16th, 2014.

There are hundreds of places like this in the world today and they keep on piling up... THE WORLDS UNSOLD CAR STOCKPILE

Houston...We have a problem!...Nobody is buying brand new cars anymore! Well they are, but not on the scale they once were.

Millions of brand new unsold cars are just sitting redundant on runways and car parks around the world. There, they stay, slowly deteriorating without being maintained. Below is an image of a massive car park at Swindon, United Kingdom, with thousands upon thousands of unsold cars just sitting there with not a buyer in sight. The car manufacturers have to buy more and more land just to park their cars as they perpetually roll off the production line

Where the World's Unsold cars go to die

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: Edumakated

Thinking about it l, we're literally around the corner from EV.

If anything, we might start seeing a hybridization of EV and Gas.

This way, EV covers the basics, but Gas will be a premium as we slowly ween ourselves off it

Face it, if the oil industry was really this super bad guy suppressing gas saving tech, Elon wouldn't have never been allowed to operate this far.

No, we are at a precipace with which we can see REAL CHANGE, however subtle it may be, it's a "don't blink" or you'll miss it type deal.

It will be a slow change, but people will come around. Once you've driven a Tesla, you have a hard time going back to ICE cars.

I don't even buy the "green" benefits... electric is just better.

Europe is legislating EV's into existence and the manufacturers really don't have a choice but to play along. As for range, I believe the day will come where the EV has wireless charging and the roads will be the charger. Sit in traffic as long as you need to. Then there's autonomous driving. Maybe there won't be any traffic when all cars communicate with one another. The car won't be allowed to enter a freeway without an electronic nanny telling it when to go.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: Edumakated

Thinking about it l, we're literally around the corner from EV.

If anything, we might start seeing a hybridization of EV and Gas.

This way, EV covers the basics, but Gas will be a premium as we slowly ween ourselves off it

Face it, if the oil industry was really this super bad guy suppressing gas saving tech, Elon wouldn't have never been allowed to operate this far.

No, we are at a precipace with which we can see REAL CHANGE, however subtle it may be, it's a "don't blink" or you'll miss it type deal.

It will be a slow change, but people will come around. Once you've driven a Tesla, you have a hard time going back to ICE cars.

I don't even buy the "green" benefits... electric is just better.

Europe is legislating EV's into existence and the manufacturers really don't have a choice but to play along. As for range, I believe the day will come where the EV has wireless charging and the roads will be the charger. Sit in traffic as long as you need to. Then there's autonomous driving. Maybe there won't be any traffic when all cars communicate with one another. The car won't be allowed to enter a freeway without an electronic nanny telling it when to go.

I think we are a long way from autonomous driving. I also don't think we'll see in road charging either. The infrastructure cost aren't worth it. I can see more charging stations being built into parking spaces though.

a reply to: Edumakated

Semi Load the other day here.

FIRE!!!!!!!!

a reply to: JohnnyJetson

A lot of time the unsold cars are the ones the manufacturers have to keep for so many years for the government. I don't recall but it's like 10 of each model every year for 10 years or so. That adds up to a lot of cars parked in fenced in areas in the Detroit area.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Bluntone22

Not a good time to be in middle management at ford.

Ha, ha..........I can't recall a time when it was EVER a good time to be in middle management at Ford or any car maker for that matter. Basically "middle management" is code for "imminently expendable".

Realistically speaking, I'm utterly amazed at this focus on autonomous vehicles and EV's. I just don't understand it. Even the industry admits they're 10 years or more out from perfecting Autonomous vehicles. By the same token, there's been practically no build out of infrastructure whatsoever for the EV's.

And how's that ever going to work? Even today, I have friends who regularly commute 45~65 miles ONE WAY to and from work and spend an hour getting to work and 1 and 1/2 hours getting home. With the need for A/C in the car, who's going to trust an EV to handle that commute?

Very perplexing to me. I saw this announcement on Bloomberg TV this morning and they attribute the layoff's to "bizarre disruption" in the entire Auto Industry. That's code for "no one is buying what they got to sell". That makes me think this whole Autonomous Vehicles/EV talk is just BS to cover up slumping sales.

The average commute by car to work is just 16 miles each way and about 26 minutes. Teslas have a range of nearly 300 miles. The beauty of EV is that (in theory at least) the car is always full as it charges at night or at work.

99% of daily drivers would be just fine with EVs for daily commuting. Sure, if you are driving 100 miles each way, I'd want to make sure there is a charging station at your destination to be safe, but that is not normal.

EV is better than ICE in pretty much every way except for range and making the loud exhaust sounds us car guys like...

Even the range isn't a huge issue if you factor in super charging. I know when I drive long distances, I usualyl need to take a break every 200 miles or so. So you could drive 200 miles, grab a bite to eat and in 30 minutes or so your car is back to full range.

The only thing really preventing EVs from taking over is pricing right now.

According to United States Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, Americans now drive an average of 13,476 miles per year. That's the most in history. Do the math and the average American drives well over 1,000 miles a month. Nov 1, 2018

So EV charging stations definitely need to be developed. Look at all the gas stations in America. I'd venture a guess that petrol based cars can drive 300-400 on average before they need refueled. Just because the source of fuel changes doesn't mean we necessarily need less fueling locations. Granted, some people may be able to refuel their EV at home for their daily commutes but also, does it mean it would force people to have two vehicles when one today would suffice? One for work and one for everything else?

Here's what I don't understand about the job cuts though. Vehicles still need to be developed, created and assembled whether it be EV or petrol based. It sounds to me like, they are moving to even more automation assembly which is really the gist of the matter, not what type of vehicle they are making.

a reply to: StoutBroux

1000 miles a month is just 33 miles per day... It sounds like a lot but it isn't. Range is more than high enough for the typical car driver. Range anxiety is just that.... anxiety about nothing. 300 mile electric range means you in could drive back and forth to work a week without charging.

It is like when people by pickup trucks because one day a year they might help a buddy move a sofa....

The difference is that you can fuel at home... it is hard to put a gas station at your home or any other place for that matter, so by extension, you need a lot of them as it is unpredictable when adn where you'd need to fill up.

On the other hand, with EV, the cars are almost ALWAYS full when you get in it because they can be charged practically anywhere or at home. You aren't really make side trips to "get gas". You come home, your car is charged. every single day. On the other hand, with a gas car, you don't fill up until you take the side trip to go get gas.

You'd need far less EV stations because teh charging would be decentralized and can be done on a much smaller scale. It is nothign to put a super charger in a home garage...