The dystopian future is here. Billboard targeting Black women equates abortion to self-care.

I bet if the billboard offered a discount on Vasectomies and Hysterectomies on Black people, someone somewhere, in some group might perk up and become concerned about the motive.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Woodcarver

Don’t you mean, men and women need to be more responsible? This isn’t a competition, it’s not like women don’t get horny. It’s not like people don’t use sex as stress relief, or do it for fun. It’s not one side’s problem. And you are old enough to know better than to say that.

Oh dear lordy...

And you're sure as hell old enough to know that women MUST deal with unwanted pregnancies... one way or another, sooner or later. Women don't get to walk away like men!!! Women HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!!!

The laws in question do not mention the fathers in any way, shape or form. That's why I said fathers have to take responsibility. And I will now add that fathers have to be held accountable as well as women for unwanted pregnancies.

Women can and will release eggs like clockwork. Women have no conscious control or choice over their fertility. Men do have a choice in when, where and how they spread their seed. No eggs can or will be fertilized without that seed. In that sense, men have far more control -- and therefore responsibility -- than women.

Which is exactly why women should have the choice whether they want to have that child or not.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Woodcarver

Don’t you mean, men and women need to be more responsible? This isn’t a competition, it’s not like women don’t get horny. It’s not like people don’t use sex as stress relief, or do it for fun. It’s not one side’s problem. And you are old enough to know better than to say that.

Oh dear lordy...

And you're sure as hell old enough to know that women MUST deal with unwanted pregnancies... one way or another, sooner or later. Women don't get to walk away like men!!! Women HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!!!

The laws in question do not mention the fathers in any way, shape or form. That's why I said fathers have to take responsibility. And I will now add that fathers have to be held accountable as well as women for unwanted pregnancies.

Women can and will release eggs like clockwork. Women have no conscious control or choice over their fertility. Men do have a choice in when, where and how they spread their seed. No eggs can or will be fertilized without that seed. In that sense, men have far more control -- and therefore responsibility -- than women.

this makes absolutely no #ing sense at all. Every person is responsible for their own body.

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Not targeting you specifically, but the argument in general.

Out of such arguments, many of our present dilemmas are born, including the high rate of broken families in society. All of this is causing a lot of problems top to bottom.

And you want to fix this by forcing women to have more kids they don’t want?

The easiest solution to that is stop having random sex.

Too hard, I know.. a dog's gotta eat, right?

Are you going to ban random sex?

Or just tell people that what they want to do makes you feel bad.

Neither of these options seem like they will have any effect on people’s choices. Maybe you should just let people have the freedom to not listen to what other people want them to do.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Which is exactly why women should have the choice whether they want to have that child or not.

Of course women have that choice. Always have and always will. Laws only punish women after the fact for making the "wrong" choice.

And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So I repeat. No woman becomes pregnant without a man's sperm donation. Men are equally responsible for unwanted pregnancies and men have the absolute power all by their lonesome to guarantee that no woman ever becomes pregnant with an unwanted child again. No laws needed. Just free will and a sense of personal responsibility...

a reply to: Woodcarver

Funny... first you come to a conclusion based upon those exact same words and now they make no sense...

Except they do make sense. They make perfect sense and you know it. Men have complete control over where, when and how they spill their seed. Therefore, men have complete control over the impregnation of others.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: gladtobehere

Stay out of other people’s business

What about the baby who isn't getting a voice? What about their business? Just because they're inside the mother's body doesn't give the mother the right to end their life.

a reply to: ketsuko

But this is part of Margaret Sanger's mission isn't it?

It kinda was. Bigot that she was.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Very timely question. One that should be directed at those who paid for it.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

You're right: What we are doing now and have been doing is screwed up, does not work, and we see it in the end results every day. So we agree on what not to do. Great.

So now that we know what doesn't work, we need to figure out what will work.

Babies cannot be conceived without a sperm donor. Men are part of the problem. Ergo, men must be part of the solution.

What is our true purpose here? And how do we achieve that?

I am saying that if our true and ultimate purpose is to value and nurture life, then we must eliminate -- or at least minimize -- unwanted pregnancies of necessity in order to eliminate -- or minimize -- abortions. And men must do their part or be held accountable.

How we do so is our challenge.

Sterilization until you have the steady income and credit to afford a child that you want.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

What in the name of wonder is "reproductive justice"?

You Americans have lost the plot. Are you not able to have a grown up debate about abortion?

a reply to: paraphi

There will be no grown up debate when religion is the backdrop to your motives.

a reply to: LSU2018

What about the baby who isn't getting a voice? What about their business? Just because they're inside the mother's body doesn't give the mother the right to end their life.

Those are good questions, and need to be considered in the greater discussion -- not just about abortion, but in terms of defining "rights" at all. I've thought about this quite a bit, and am always left with more questions than answers.

No woman is obligated to give life; so a baby has no right to demand or expect the use of a woman's uterus for its own benefit. Generally speaking, no one has any right to demand or expect anything of anyone. So it seems to me that the question is if the woman's rights are superseded by the baby's rights once pregnant. Some have obviously decided "yes," they are. I'm not so sure.

Also, pregnancies can terminate themselves spontaneously, as well as being induced. Babies can also be stillborn. So, again, the baby really has no "right" to a successful pregnancy. (I understand there's a very big difference between spontaneous and induced abortions, I'm just trying to look at this in purely objective terms).

There is also the consideration of the mother's health both during and after pregnancy. Even under the best of circumstances, pregnancy is not easy. Pregnancy and childbirth can have very serious complications with long-term (even lifelong) effects. Does a pregnant woman lose her right to self-defense? Even if it is her own baby posing the threat...

ETA (d'oh!):

Sterilization until you have the steady income and credit to afford a child that you want.

I've heard others suggest this, especially vasectomies for men, which are quick, easy, cheap, irreversible and virtually without negative side effects (unlike women's options, which are rife with negative side effects and adverse outcomes). One person suggested that all boys have a vasectomy at puberty, and when they wanted children and were prepared to be responsible for their children, they could have the vasectomy reversed.

It sounds like it would be effective, and perhaps worthy of men's consideration, but I am loathe to force medical procedures on anyone...

Well, for whatever reason be it genetics or medical malpractice, black women are disproportionately more likely to suffer serious injury and/or die during childbirth.

I'm Libertarian leaning as well, but at some point you gotta put your "Abortion is Murder" repetitive, lack of any other argumentative point rant away and use your head. It does help them out a lot.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Not targeting you specifically, but the argument in general.

Out of such arguments, many of our present dilemmas are born, including the high rate of broken families in society. All of this is causing a lot of problems top to bottom.

And you want to fix this by forcing women to have more kids they don’t want?

I'd rather fix this by restoring sex back to an activity we respect for what it does - create new life. Instead of treating it like we do now - a cheap Friday recreational activity to enjoy with that chick at the end of the bar who looks really hawt now that you've both had a few beers.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Until you stop seeing people as lefties or righties, the big picture will elude you. Not all people fit into neatly packaged boxes.

I judge people by their character. I don't assume someone's ideology until I've listened to them and actually hear directly from them what they believe. I use the term "leftie" to describe the SJWs, the university professors, the Hollywood elite, and the so-called progressive democrats. I see the big picture, it hasn't eluded me.
These people fit perfectly into the box you describe. They are from the same mold, marching in absolute lockstep, like good little facists. They fit so perfectly into that box, it's scary.

Black Babies WILL be aborted By Any Means Necessary.

a reply to: ketsuko

And yet there are facts that show that Black women suffer disproportionately healthwise from multiple pregnancies.

I do have a problem with the recent changes Alabama effectively banned abortions.





www.essence.com...

In an op-ed for Dallas News, Marsha Jones, executive director of the Afiya Center, wrote that, “Black women are twice as likely to die from pregnancy-related issues as white women…Restrictions on abortion are not only harmful to Black women but also contradictory to the strong support for abortion rights by black people in Texas. Ninety-five percent of Black adults in Texas believe that a woman’s ability to control whether and when she has children is an important part of financial stability for herself and her family.”

In 1966, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., an early supporter of Planned Parenthood, called family planning a “special and urgent concern” for Black families living in cyclical poverty in the United States, a critical issue that this nation has the resources to address.

Abortion is self-care.

Arline T. Geronimus, a public health researcher and associate director and a professor of Health Behavior & Health Education at the University of Michigan, conceptualized “weathering” to describe how the chronic and cumulative ramifications of white supremacy have detrimental impacts on the health of Black people in the United States, particularly Black women.

According to Geronimus, “…Black women experience accelerated biological aging in response to repeated or prolonged adaptation to subjective and objective stressors…[Between the] ages 49–55, Black women are 7.5 years biologically ‘older’ than White women.” And, according the NIH study “African American Women’s Beliefs About Mental Illness, Stigma, and Preferred Coping Behaviors,” simply existing as a Black woman in the United States places one at risk for developing mental illness:

The rates of mental health problems are higher than average for Black women because of psychological factors that result directly from their experience as Black Americans. These experiences include racism, cultural alienation, and violence and sexual exploitation.

a reply to: ketsuko

If "god" wanted that he/she wouldn't have made it so enjoyable.

And then, nothing like overwhelming your enemies with superior numbers for loot land or virgins. Hard to get away from that Old Testament mindset.