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Why Use Atom Bombs on Civilans Barely 3wks after 1st Test Detonation?

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posted on May, 18 2019 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: SailorJerry

It wasn’t meant a literally .

I do know my stuff on World War II how much of this of you heard of ?

The strategic importance of north Africa and the middle east ? ( wasn’t oil )

The start of Japanese imperialism ?

The complete debacle in Crete.

What about the real story of Anzio ?

The Germans development of the first guiged bombs ?

How about the Valentine and Matilda tanks defending Moscow ?
edit on 18-5-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 18 2019 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: putnam6

Of course, it was overkill!

Even the people that designed the things and were responsible for there inception recognized that fact.

People die in war, and war is a slaughter, plus there are always civilian casualties those are also unfortunate facts of life, but nuclear weapons kill indiscriminately and leave nothing standing nor habitable for quite some time.

That's not warfare, that's total annihilation.

If that's not overkill, i dont know what is.


Both of the cities have been rebuilt and are thriving metropolises. They had to be shown continuing was going to be impossible, the Japanese so believed in their superiority losing wasn't ever contemplated by the civilian population, though the military knew, surrender wasn't an option. You do know about the attempted military coup to overthrow the government to keep them from surrendering.


No its not over kill when many more people would have died from a land invasion than dropped from the 2 atomic bombs which is what the question was asked by the OP. IE ATOM BOMBS VS LAND INVASION. More civilians were killed in the regular bombings and fires yet Japan persisted. War sucks even a just war sucks, but this was a just war, unless you believe they should have what ? got to certain point and then sailed home, without a declared victory and being rebuilt and assist by the US military in recovery.
edit on 18-5-2019 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Artesia

To make the Soviets think twice about invading Japan and the rest of Europe to be honest.

The Japanese were defeated but Stalin was not.

Unfortunately, a point had to be proven, repeatedly no less.


The japanese proved to live a life without the word surender in their language... To fight and conquer the mainland and all the island would have caused immense lose of life. To stop them one bomb would give the one and only correct message...learn a new word...surrender or we will bomb all of japan to sinders. Thats why those bombs were dropped....I think.




posted on May, 18 2019 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: zatara


降伏 Kōfuku means surrender in Japanese. LoL

It's borrowed from classical Chinese and probably has many centuries of history.

After all, in the Sengoku period, there were probably many, many surrenders of lords to other lords.

The bomb was what it was i suppose but the Japanese were indeed on their arse and ready to capitulate and surrender.......just not to the Soviets.



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: putnam6

They were babies compared to the payloads and warheads our modern ICBM carry. And the radiologists and mutations they released and created are still causing birth defects to this day.

History is what it is, what i believe is neither here nor there i suppose.

Look at it this way through, if you had acted upon the information provided to your nation by her allies, Pearl harbor might never have been allowed to happen nor go down in the manner in which it did.

I believe that the second world war was as staged and orchestrated the same way as any other, by some very nefarious groups of people, but that's just my opinion.
edit on 18-5-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: MAC269
a reply to: Artesia

the big problem is they didn't have enough bombs



We are still using some of our WW2 stockpile. JDAMs and most 500 pound bombs are left over dumb bombs with a GPS or laser seeker nose and tail fin kit screwed to them.

The truth is they were both Japans last big industrial plant cities that were building weapons. The other cities were firebombed flat. When you have the Capability to not only win a war but stop it and save over a 500,000 lives by deploying such weapon, you use it as soon as you can. The Japanese would have never surrendered until we were in Tokyo otherwise.
edit on 18-5-2019 by RudeMarine because: added text



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 01:42 PM
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They used them to test on humans,
Also to show the Soviets.
That did not work very well, The Soviets ended up making and testing their own. The Tsar Bomba was 50 megatons, And the Soviets were going to make a 100 megaton version, 16 years after the U.S used their weapons.
It is scary to imagine how much more powerfull the modern weapons are.



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: RudeMarine

There is actually some speculation the cities were chosen for there population numbers as well as there legitimate industrial targets.

War is hell i suppose, the real ticket would have been to save all those lives on both sides without coming to such extremes.

"Hindsight is 20/20." It's easy to know the right thing to do after something has happened, but it's hard to predict the future.



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: putnam6

They were babies compared to the payloads and warheads our modern ICBM carry. And the radiologists and mutations they released and created are still causing birth defects to this day.

History is what it is, what i believe is neither here nor there i suppose.

Look at it this way through, if you had acted upon the information provided to your nation by her allies, Pearl harbor might never have been allowed to happen nor go down in the manner in which it did.

I believe that the second world war was as staged and orchestrated the same way as any other, by some very nefarious groups of people, but that's just my opinion.


I agree nuclear weapons are unimaginably horrendous and they haven't been used again in 70 years, and yes the targets were chosen because they hadn't been bombed too much before hand, they wanted to see the full effects of the weapons

Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and Kokura were the original four cities on the target list. Henry Stimson, the Secretary of War, removed Kyoto from the target list... supposedly he had gone there on his honeymoon and enjoyed the city so much that he didn't want to blow it to kingdom come.

When the orders to drop the bomb were finalized, Hiroshima was chosen as the primary target, weather permitting. If the weather over Hiroshima wasn't acceptable, the pilot had the option to bomb Kokura, Niigata, or Nagasaki. If the war had continued all four cities were scheduled to be hit, as soon as an atomic weapon was available. Kokura was supposed to be 2nd but it was smoggy and cloudy so they choose Nagasaki.
Source(s):
en.wikipedia.org...

As for Pearl Harbor think its possible we had clues but just didn't put it all together,history shows warnings were delayed or out right ignored. That said if we had remained neutral it would been a very different world but Roosevelt knew that wasn't an option. Japan was coming regardless they too had plans for invading California which they would have likely done had the carriers not been out to sea.
edit on 18-5-2019 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake


History in its entirety could be considered to be a collection of unbelievable horrors if truth be told.


SAorry bro been slogging all day and that was on the level and really love your quoted above. May be we are making a better world for us all and move on fro thems horrors and can connect with thw mothership to herald tnhe sceond coming of mister J x



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The only thing with Jesus coming back i suppose is someones apt to wonder what we will win this time around for topping the big fellows only Son?


Great parable and metaphor but probably not so much a real person, magic omnipotent sky daddy or otherwise.


edit on 18-5-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: putnam6

Actually Stimpson was looking to an Afterwar period and recognized that Kyoto was the cultural center of Japan and removed it from the list. Tokyo was off limits as the needed the Emperor alive to make a surrender stick.

In regards to the premise of the OP. The plan to invade Japan aka Operation Downfall would have resulted in millions of causalities on both sides and the US had ample experience in the fight till dead / suicide tactics that the Japanese military had employed during the island hoping campaign and Intel that they were prepared to defend the home islands in the same manner to look for a much easier way. That was in the form off Little Boy and Fat Man.

Did It also serve as a message to Russia? Perhaps, but I look to the lives that were saved by not invading including possibly my Grandfather who had been cut order to go from Germany to the Pacific



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: putnam6

Actually Stimpson was looking to an Afterwar period and recognized that Kyoto was the cultural center of Japan and removed it from the list. Tokyo was off limits as the needed the Emperor alive to make a surrender stick.

In regards to the premise of the OP. The plan to invade Japan aka Operation Downfall would have resulted in millions of causalities on both sides and the US had ample experience in the fight till dead / suicide tactics that the Japanese military had employed during the island hoping campaign and Intel that they were prepared to defend the home islands in the same manner to look for a much easier way. That was in the form off Little Boy and Fat Man.

Did It also serve as a message to Russia? Perhaps, but I look to the lives that were saved by not invading including possibly my Grandfather who had been cut order to go from Germany to the Pacific


Thanks for the info, knew I shouldn't trust wikipedia, heard something about Kyoto being spared way back when they had that major earthquake though. Regardless probably my most favorite history subject in general WW2 and really enjoyed Richard Rhoads The Making of the Atomic Bomb and all that went into it. Just dont think people realize how unprepared the US was for war, barring some crucial errors by both Japan and Germany it may have been different.



posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: putnam6

Thats a great book and I think that's whee I got that part but the BBC also has a bit on it www.bbc.com...

He was already looking ahead to the coming cold war it seems and wanted to rebuild Japan and win the hearts and minds of its people quicker



posted on May, 19 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: Artesia

Op. The Japanese people in WW2 were considered Civilian NCO in the imperial military ans as such were not murder victims.



posted on May, 20 2019 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Artesia

Op. The Japanese people in WW2 were considered Civilian NCO in the imperial military ans as such were not murder victims.


Yes and that's how wars were fought in that time frame. The allied strategic bombing campaign in Europe was no different. In that time frame displacing a civilian population was considered a legit means of attacking an enemy's infrastructure.

If you apply present day morality and standards it will always come up short. In the context of these times it was acceptable



posted on May, 20 2019 @ 10:25 PM
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a reply to: madmac5150

Nope, US was planning to conquer the world back in the day before they released all their war plans. Nothing to do with pissing US off.
edit on 20-5-2019 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2019 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Artesia

Op. The Japanese people in WW2 were considered Civilian NCO in the imperial military ans as such were not murder victims.


Yes and that's how wars were fought in that time frame. The allied strategic bombing campaign in Europe was no different. In that time frame displacing a civilian population was considered a legit means of attacking an enemy's infrastructure.

If you apply present day morality and standards it will always come up short. In the context of these times it was acceptable


Actually we would say they Are providing aid and comfort and under Geneva conventions be able to kill them legally today.



posted on May, 20 2019 @ 11:27 PM
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The Japanese own estimate was that the USA would lose 1 million soldiers in the conquest of 'mainland' Japan. Both bombs together caused less than a half a million casualties. So it was a net savings.

The germans had tried to use heavy water, instead of the seemingly endless refinement cycles of uranium. The Germans (and soviets) through spies in America, knew that the Americans were using an unstable uranium isotope. This would have to require millions of hours of work, to refine a weapons-sized mass.

The Japanese leaders believed through their German intel, that there was no way the Americans could have a second bomb ready to deploy. The Germans sent their heavy water and detonators for their own bomb by submarine to Japan, even as Adm Doenitz was surrendering to the west.

Japan could have surrendered after the first bomb, but did not, because they assumed the Americans had only one bomb. The second detonation proved that their intel was unreliable. which is why the Japanese surrendered immediately after the second bomb was detonated.

The Japanese had also been working on a lab in Manchuria, "Unit 731" and were planning to infect NYC, Washington, etc., with bubonic plague....



posted on May, 21 2019 @ 06:49 AM
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It had nothing to do with saving lives; what a silly excuse to use and what an illogical line to believe. I guess Iraq was for democracy then?
They wanted to test their new toys on cities and see the effects for themselves. If civillian life was at all a consideration, there would have been a warning detonation before any targets were selected. The US could have nuked a portion of the coast on the water, or even a legit military target/port/harbor or some farm land near the capital; again to demonstrate their power and give the Japanese the chance to surrender.
They didn't do that. They instead nuked a population center filled with civillians; without first demonstrating the power of their new toy in a way that half a million innocent civilians didn't have to die, then they did it again.

They wanted to destroy the cities and kill civilians and test their toy. Simple as that. And it had nothing to do with Japan not wanting to surrender. They were ready to surrender. The Emperor offered his katana to the victors(America) which speaks volumes about their intent.

And it had also nothing to do with the Soviets. The bombs actually motivated them to accelerate the development of their own nuclear weapons. If anything, Hiroshima and Nagasaki encouraged Stalin to get his nukes developed ASAP.


IT--




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