A Question. . . Who has changed their mind on the subject of abortion?

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: DBCowboy

I've been here a long time now.

I remember when you detested abortion, but held the staunch libertarian position of its none of my business.

What changed your mind?

The unborn, in my opinion, is a human. It's a human life.

We're against murder, and none of us would ever do it, yet why would we say that others have the freedom to do it?

a reply to: DBCowboy

One of the reasons I hate this issue. It is an unsolvable puzzle that has no solution. Either way I go I am going against my beliefs. At th end of the day I think we have to protect human life.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: DBCowboy

One of the reasons I hate this issue. It is an unsolvable puzzle that has no solution. Either way I go I am going against my beliefs. At th end of the day I think we have to protect human life.

At the very least, speak out when we see (perceive) innocent human life being snuffed out.

a reply to: DBCowboy

My daughter changed her mind when she looked at an ultrasound at 12 weeks. She realized it was a little living baby when she seen it inside her body. She could not kill it.

I am thankful. My grandson is awesome!

a reply to: DBCowboy


I wish abortions didn’t exist. I am against it personally.

However, I believe the bigger issues that need to be addressed, are the costs of birth control, and access to healthcare for many young people who find themselves in a position of becoming pregnant and not being able to care for the child properly. Or they just don’t want the child.

There is too much child abuse/neglect in this world as it is.

I would like to see abortions banned, and birth control become more easily accessible and affordable for people.

originally posted by: KTemplar

I would like to see abortions banned, and birth control become more easily accessible and affordable for people.

I'd like to see more Alyssa Milanos preaching abstinence...

and women without vaginas.

I just discovered those...

fascinating stuff.

When I was younger, I knew several girls that had several abortions. At the time I didn't think much of it -- not my business, I thought. And whether or not an unborn child was actually alive, I don't think ever crossed my mind.

But looking back in hindsight, I can't help but feel disturbed. And knowing that some of them had multiple abortions for reasons as simple as not wanting the child, only makes it worse. They were obviously young and naive (and highly irresponsible) at the time and probably didn't know any better, so not only do I feel sorry for them, but also for what could have been. I wonder if any of them have any regrets.

One of them even told me she was denied abortion due to complications so she ended up using a homemade tool. Difficult just thinking about it...

But having said all that, I still don't have a strong opinion either way. On one hand, I feel like it's not my business to tell somebody else what to do with their body. But on the other hand, if the child is in fact alive, how can you call it anything but murder?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Mine did over the years.

I was the typical college girl and felt like I should be able to control my body. Then I thought about it. I realized that if I really believed in the unalienable rights and if babies in the NICU who were drastically premature were really human which everyone seemed to agree they were, then there was no real difference between them and the ones who weren't born yet but were just as old.

So then, my thought process was ... at what point does that reduce down to? How young is too young to be human? I don't really have an answer if there even is one.

And that's the point where I admit that faith does kick in. If there is a God, and I know there is. We would do better to error on the side of caution. The alternative is unthinkable.

Not only that, but it also occurred to me that we never think anything other than that a pregnant women who wants her baby is carrying anything other than a human baby at any point. That child is never anything but a child, and we'll even prosecute someone for killing it if such a thing were to occur.

I have always been pro-abortion. Although in my younger years, I just saw it more a matter of "my body, my choice". I didn't really have any other reason for it than that until I aged and saw more of the world and (frankly) have gone through my own existential crisis (which has been the majority of my adult life). I look back and I see what my parents were working with when I was conceived and I wonder WTF they were even thinking. This kind of crap happens every single day and people don't even give it a second thought. That's bad enough. But when someone is wise enough to actually put thought into it and decide it's a bad idea? Why would you force them?

The older I get, the more I see, the more certain I am that abortion is probably the best decision most people can make regarding either an unplanned pregnancy, an unwanted pregnancy and/or people who are just plain not qualified or competent to be parents. Ideally, birth control would USUALLY prevent the necessity of ever having to make a choice on abortion. The world is not ideal and some people are more stupid more of the time than not stupid more of the time.

So, occasionally it happens that people cause a pregnancy without really thinking about it but then get smart and realize they shouldn't have done that. If that person has that eureka moment, I strongly believe that society should not second guess them. If a person says that they believe that giving birth is a huge mistake (for any reason), we should believe them. And technically, I would frankly encourage people to have abortions in the vast majority of cases because that's just how I am. I think there are too many people and not nearly enough caring and intelligent solutions for that.

But you know? I mean ESPECIALLY if the mother is having doubts. That's a train wreck waiting to happen right there and I'm with her all the way on her choice.

If I had to wager a guess, It would be that 80+ percent of pregnancies are unplanned.

If everyone who wasn't ready/scared/not financially in the position to have a child were to abort, we would have never survived as a race.

It's just another hurdle of life and like most hurdles people aren't ready for them and are scared and fear the change. It's a really poor reason, these days, to just abort a baby.

But, people don't step up like they used to. And I'm not throwing that all on the woman who decides to have an abortion(every single mother requires a man who wouldn't step up to the plate). The rate of single motherhood is reaching epidemic levels, moreso with certain communities. Will the choice to keep the child result in hard times(financially and mentally)? Of course it will, just as it has for centuries. But stepping up to the plate and ultimately realizing the reward(albeit years down the line) is what people should value.

a reply to: MisterSpock

If my wife and I would have waited until we could comfortably afford children, we'd probably never have any.

But we sacrificed and got by.

Maybe people don't want to sacrifice any more.

I'm a conservative Trump supporter but.

The fact that liberals want to kill their own babies is really none of my business and frankly in the last few years I've become so disgusted by liberals that I've come to fully support them in having abortions.

The way I see it is this issue lends itself to conservative virtue signalling.
"OH! LOOK at me! I love BABIES!"

a reply to: DBCowboy

Nope. I haven't changed my mind.

The only thing that could, would be "honest" medical and scientific evidence of sentient cognizant embryo/fetus.

If that happened I would side with the group calling people murderer.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MisterSpock

If my wife and I would have waited until we could comfortably afford children, we'd probably never have any.

But we sacrificed and got by.

Maybe people don't want to sacrifice any more.

Well, a lot of people fall for that trap.

I did, and now I'm old(er) and everyone my age has families(of which, like i said, no doubt were unplanned).

It's like delaying any decision, if you wait until "everything is right" it will never come.

The best things in life often aren't planned ahead, it's only after you get thrust into a situation and do the right thing that you realize what it meant all along.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: DBCowboy

Nope. I haven't changed my mind.

The only thing that could, would be "honest" medical and scientific evidence of sentient cognizant embryo.

If that happened I would side with the group calling people murderer.

Do you view animals/plants as life?

Not singling you out or going for a gotcha, but I do.

I don't needlessly kill animals and I'm damn sure they don't have any sentient attributes. They eat and screw and that's about it. But I feel bad when I hit something on the road.

ETA: The point being that the existence of "life" often times doesn't require for the life in question to be able to justify/quantify it's existence. That my point/question was to further highlight the "murky" waters to which this topic exists in.

a reply to: DBCowboy

My stance has been the same forever, I personally think it's repugnant in probably 95% of cases.

But as a guy I feel it's not my place to dictate what a women chooses to do to herself.

a reply to: MisterSpock

I am going by the actual definition of sentient so no worries about me perceiving a gotcha from you.

Since we are not using the same vocabulary I simply don't understand you.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: MisterSpock

I am going by the actual definition of sentient so no worries about me perceiving a gotcha from you.

Since we are not using the same vocabulary I simply don't understand you.

I know the definition of sentient and it isn't the same as something that is "alive".

I'd actually argue that the vast majority of humans over the age of 20 aren't sentient, but that doesn't mean I should go around killing all them(as much as I'd like to).

a reply to: MisterSpock

I have no idea what you are on about since you are using some alternate definition for what has already been established.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: MisterSpock

I have no idea what you are on about since you are using some alternate definition for what has already been established.

I was making the distinction between sentient and life. You're probably smart enough to have picked up on that, or you think your smart enough to ignore it and twist it into some form of confusion.

Either way, you're good to go.