A look at how Bob Lazar interviews match up with Pentagon's admission of studying UFOs

Lord help a demon in a fight with an angel marine...

a reply to: joelr

It's obviously possible there are more programs but the DOD guy who worked on ufos should have some information. 
It doesn't make much sense to have a gigantic secret program then a small one they cancelled? I don't think the gov knows much more than we do. 

Why does it not make sense? Makes perfect sense! You think because one DoD guy is working on the supposedly official and only ufo program, that he would know about other ufo programs that is investing more money into it.

Like I said before, with the overwhelming evidence regarding ufos, it makes perfect sense that they would have a hugely classified ufo project, and open smaller ufo programs so people think this is all they are doing regarding ufos.

Why would that be "making sense"? Why wouldn't the gov just keep the big main ufo program secret? Why all the charade and maneuvers? That seems to make less sense? They don't give 2 s#^$s about what the public thinks. 
Not enough to go through all that hassle. 

Because they want people to think they are making some sort of effort regarding the subject. More and more people believe that ufos require further investigation. We know that time and time again, they they have lied about ufos, passed programs have shown this with project grudge, blue book etc What makes you think they are telling the truth now?

No, 
"Moscovium (115Mc) is a synthetic element, and thus a standard atomic weight cannot be given. Like all synthetic elements, it has no stable isotopes. The first isotope to be synthesized was 288Mc in 2004. There are four known radioisotopes from 287Mc to 290Mc. The longest-lived isotope is 290Mc with a half-life of 0.8 seconds. " 

Lazar said 115 was stable. He said this because in the 1960's an idea came about that there would be an "island of stability" around element 110-120. There wasn't. He also said the element created a "gravity A field that extended out beyond the particles and warped space-time". This is simply bad sic-fi. Why would adding some protons and electrons to an atom make it do fantastic sic-fi things that make no sense? It was just a story that sounded believable to non-physics literate people. 

but beyond that I'm telling you as someone who understand the basics of gravitational physics Lazar had no idea what he was talking about. And his story also is an extention of Roswell which is obvious mythology.

So why do some physicists, including the same people who discovered it in 2004, that it is not possible to make it stable at the moment with current technology. That does not sound impossible to me, because it's not impossible. That like saying it's impossible to put man on mars, because we cannot do it at the moment.

a reply to: Jay-morris

More and more people believe that ufos require further investigation. We know that time and time again, they they have lied about ufos, past programs have shown this with project grudge, blue book etc What makes you think they are telling the truth now?

Grudge wasn't much more than a reappraisal of Project Sign and short lived. Blue Book was serious for a year or two before Ruppelt moved on. By 1953 the Robertson panel recommendations made it little more than a futile PR exercise to damp down interest.

Is this what you are suggesting AATIP/AAWSAP is?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Jay-morris

More and more people believe that ufos require further investigation. We know that time and time again, they they have lied about ufos, past programs have shown this with project grudge, blue book etc What makes you think they are telling the truth now?

Grudge wasn't much more than a reappraisal of Project Sign and short lived. Blue Book was serious for a year or two before Ruppelt moved on. By 1953 the Robertson panel recommendations made it little more than a futile PR exercise to damp down interest.

Is this what you are suggesting AATIP/AAWSAP is?

No, I am saying when it comes to ufos, you cannot believe a work they say.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: joelr


Why does it not make sense? Makes perfect sense! You think because one DoD guy is working on the supposedly official and only ufo program, that he would know about other ufo programs that is investing more money into it.

Like I said before, with the overwhelming evidence regarding ufos, it makes perfect sense that they would have a hugely classified ufo project, and open smaller ufo programs so people think this is all they are doing regarding ufos.

Much of the evidence is indefinite. But the DOD has a budget and it has oversight. You don't create a program to mislead people and pay people large salaries for years just to keep a secret. Especially a secret that's already secret?
There is no need for a "fake" ufo program? We obviously don't know about any other programs so it's secret!?
There is no need to spend 1 or 2 millions dollars just to keep a secret program "more secret".
AND it doesn't even do that? It just brought attention to the UFO thing and the fact that the DOD is actually interested.


There may be a military program but the DOD does not likely have another "more secret" program. That isn't how real life works. Every agency has budget wars, every department wants more money.

Because they want people to think they are making some sort of effort regarding the subject. More and more people believe that ufos require further investigation. We know that time and time again, they they have lied about ufos, passed programs have shown this with project grudge, blue book etc What makes you think they are telling the truth now?

No they don't care what people think. Just because there is a group of ufo people who buy books and go to ufo forums they do not have influence in government agencies.
The people who influence agencies are politicians, super rich people, corporate owners and other gov people. They do not give a crap about ufos because the field is riddled with kooks who talk about abductions and the moon being a ufo listening device.
The DOD does not care what 19yo ufo forum people think.

So why do some physicists, including the same people who discovered it in 2004, that it is not possible to make it stable at the moment with current technology. That does not sound impossible to me, because it's not impossible. That like saying it's impossible to put man on mars, because we cannot do it at the moment.

Lazar did not say it was stable "with special tech". You are adding another element to make the story work.
He said element 115 was part of an "island of stability".
This was predicted in the 1960s and Lazar was gloming on to this hoping it would be true.
Trust me, his explanations of all and any gravitational physics was below layman. He is not a physicist.
I will go to a convention someday and record a video of me asking him basic questions about gravity and tensor equations, which is basic language to all gravitational scientists. He will not be able to communicate in the language of physics.

He even failed at a laymans description of basic gravity. He actually said the phrase "how a gravitational field effects space-time".
Gravity IS space-time. That is a basic layman version of gravity. You do not say gravitational fields effect space-time, it makes no sense?
He tried to say that gravity IS a wave but "not a particle, that's silly".
In quantum mechanics all particles are waves, he didn't even get to wave/particle duality. But we also know that the strong force DOES have a particle/wave associated with it - the gluon. So he tanked on that and like 12 more times.

a reply to: mirageman

You sound more and more like someone attempting to subtlety smear Knapp. I used to find your insight...insightful but not lately.

Either you haven't worked much with charismatic people or you're being intentionally misleading here. People like Knapp are destined to be successful regardless of what they do. It just so happens Knapp lives in an area full of plenty of controversy and the fact that he broke the Lazar story when he did was nothing more than Knapp being Knapp.

I will admit Knapp takes some liberties with some of the information he presents. Sometimes it's a bit to broad sweeping and all encompassing and lacks precise specifics. However, I will also say Knapp is one of the few legitimate and true investigative journalists around. He does an excellent job of building a time line of events and he tells a great story based on the information he uncovers. His voice even resonates at the lower frequencies typically found in people who are found to be more interesting to listen to.

You're literally accusing Knapp of being a disinfo agent for simply using the specific set of skills he has built over a very, very long period of time. None of Knapp's rise was overnight. He cued in on a subset of the population which happened to be UFOlogy. Based upon where he lived and the many decades of secrecy surrounding Groom Lake and Area 51 it's only natural for Knapp to dial into that.

I don't ever recall Knapp releasing ANY piece of information that was not backed by either an eyewitness who also provided corroborating evidence to some degree. There are literally hundreds of "journalists" across the country on a daily basis making shlt up every single day just to sell their story to the MSM and you're constantly going on about Knapp somehow being a manufactured disinfo agent.

I don't have a feeling one way or another about Knapp other than what I see, hear, and read. I don't personally know the man but I know someone who does. That person is someone I hold in high regards and their word is gold to me. If she says Knapp is a stand up guy who believes in what he is doing then that's all I can go on.

Unless you have something legitimately concrete to provide that proves Knapp is intentionally spreading disinfo then please stop with the subtle smearing of Knapp.

It's getting old.

a reply to: 1point92AU

"His voice even resonates at the lower frequencies typically found in people who are found to be more interesting to listen to. "

Was ur post a sophisticated troll or do you have a Knapp poster in your locker? Jk

"don't ever recall Knapp releasing ANY piece of information that was not backed by either an eyewitness who also provided corroborating evidence to some degree."

You realize the Lazar story itself has no corroborating witnesses, nor did Lazar provide evidence. There's crumbs of debatable support that ufology has fought over for decades, but he took a huge gamble.

a reply to: joelr

Much of the evidence is indefinite. But the DOD has a budget and it has oversight. You don't create a program to mislead people and pay people large salaries for years just to keep a secret. Especially a secret that's already secret? 
There is no need for a "fake" ufo program? We obviously don't know about any other programs so it's secret!? 
There is no need to spend 1 or 2 millions dollars just to keep a secret program "more secret". 
AND it doesn't even do that? It just brought attention to the UFO thing and the fact that the DOD is actually interested. 


There may be a military program but the DOD does not likely have another "more secret" program. That isn't how real life works. Every agency has budget wars, every department wants more money. 

I am working, so just going to reply to your first response. The best way to look at it is this. I gather you are familiar with the Nimitz UFO incident?

If this ufo programe is so legit, then why did they not release the whole, much clearer footage? Witnesess of the incident said there was much clearer footage of the objects that was taken away with all the other data from the case. If they are so transparent, why did they not release it?

But we have seen this in other cases too where not all the footage has been released once the government/militery have it. Take the Mariana UFO Incident where witnesess filmed ufos and sent it away to be analyzed. It was returned to them with the film edited, misding part of the foitage where you really see these objects.

Why do this? Simple, ufo evidence like this goes somewhere else. It makes perfect sense. The duo programe that came out had a budget of 20 million a year, which is absolutly nothing. Pennies when you think about it.

These programs are there to deceive. Even though it was secret at the time, they always know it would be released, and that would hopefully mean that people would think it was the only official program at the time, but obviously, that is not the case, considering what they did not release to the public.

originally posted by: InspectaBecky
a reply to: 1point92AU

"His voice even resonates at the lower frequencies typically found in people who are found to be more interesting to listen to. "

Was ur post a sophisticated troll or do you have a Knapp poster in your locker? Jk

"don't ever recall Knapp releasing ANY piece of information that was not backed by either an eyewitness who also provided corroborating evidence to some degree."

You realize the Lazar story itself has no corroborating witnesses, nor did Lazar provide evidence. There's crumbs of debatable support that ufology has fought over for decades, but he took a huge gamble.

I made it clear I don't have a feeling one way or another about Knapp. I see this poster frequently making insinuations that Knapp is a disinfo agent and I call BS on people like that. Just like I call BS on a person like you who is clearly a novice on the Lazar story when you make an ignorant statement like "you realize the Lazar story itself has no corroborating witnesses".

Did you just read about the Lazar story yesterday or something?

a reply to: 1point92AU

Who are the corroborating witnesses to Lazar working as a ufo mechanic at the mythical papoose s4? I can show u my lazar facts better than I can tell you... try me out lol

a reply to: 1point92AU

Even Knapp makes sure to remind us that he had 8 people lined up to give info sbout the S4 program, But unfortunately his phone was tapped and they were all threatened into silence for 30 years. So the legend goes...

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: joelr



I am working, so just going to reply to your first response. The best way to look at it is this. I gather you are familiar with the Nimitz UFO incident?

If this ufo programe is so legit, then why did they not release the whole, much clearer footage? Witnesess of the incident said there was much clearer footage of the objects that was taken away with all the other data from the case. If they are so transparent, why did they not release it?

But we have seen this in other cases too where not all the footage has been released once the government/militery have it. Take the Mariana UFO Incident where witnesess filmed ufos and sent it away to be analyzed. It was returned to them with the film edited, misding part of the foitage where you really see these objects.

Why do this? Simple, ufo evidence like this goes somewhere else. It makes perfect sense. The duo programe that came out had a budget of 20 million a year, which is absolutly nothing. Pennies when you think about it.

These programs are there to deceive. Even though it was secret at the time, they always know it would be released, and that would hopefully mean that people would think it was the only official program at the time, but obviously, that is not the case, considering what they did not release to the public.

I know the Nimitz story, I heard a guy say there was clearer footage, I don't know if because one guys says that it makes it true? Even if it's true that isn't the DOD, they got what footage the Navy sent them. So the Navy might still have better footage, why would they send all their footage to the DOD?

The DOD budget has oversight and the UFO program was hidden under a weird name "aerospace threat identification" or something but there is still no way they spend 20 million a year just to put people on a false trail. Again, why would the DOD care about ufo followers? What possible threat or influence do the general ufo scene people have over the DOD? They go to Roswell every year and wear foil and Roswell T-shirts and how exactly would this influence the DOD? People believe in all sorts of mythology, the DOD does not care.

If anything it's the opposite. Adam Curtis's 2016 documentary “HyperNormalisation" explains that the government want's people to believe in ufos because it helps muddy the waters when secret tech is spotted.


"“The reality was stranger: the American government might have been making it all up, that they had created a fake conspiracy to deliberately mislead the population. The lights that people imagined were UFOs may in reality have been new high technology weapons that the US government were testing…. The government wanted to keep the weapons secret, but they couldn’t always hide their appearance in the skies, so it is alleged that they chose a number of people to use to spread the rumors that they were really alien visitations.”"
www.salon.com...


But again, if that even is true the DOD didn't spend any money on it, they just created some fake documents and wasted 1 day of an employees work.

There is zero pressure on any gov agency to disclose anything. There are issues with budget disclosures, they mess with the system same as anyone does. But there is not any serious missing money, there is no billion dollars missing from the budget.
I think people just want to believe there are secret programs and massive amounts of information held by all agencies but it doesn't make sense. That was the DOD's program. The Navy probably has their own program.
If the DOD did have some other much larger program what would they even be spending the money on? If ufo's are alien we can't catch them or study them or barely even film them? There is nothing to spend money on?

dod.defense.gov...

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: joelr



I am working, so just going to reply to your first response. The best way to look at it is this. I gather you are familiar with the Nimitz UFO incident?

If this ufo programe is so legit, then why did they not release the whole, much clearer footage? Witnesess of the incident said there was much clearer footage of the objects that was taken away with all the other data from the case. If they are so transparent, why did they not release it?

But we have seen this in other cases too where not all the footage has been released once the government/militery have it. Take the Mariana UFO Incident where witnesess filmed ufos and sent it away to be analyzed. It was returned to them with the film edited, misding part of the foitage where you really see these objects.

Why do this? Simple, ufo evidence like this goes somewhere else. It makes perfect sense. The duo programe that came out had a budget of 20 million a year, which is absolutly nothing. Pennies when you think about it.

These programs are there to deceive. Even though it was secret at the time, they always know it would be released, and that would hopefully mean that people would think it was the only official program at the time, but obviously, that is not the case, considering what they did not release to the public.

I know the Nimitz story, I heard a guy say there was clearer footage, I don't know if because one guys says that it makes it true? Even if it's true that isn't the DOD, they got what footage the Navy sent them. So the Navy might still have better footage, why would they send all their footage to the DOD?

The DOD budget has oversight and the UFO program was hidden under a weird name "aerospace threat identification" or something but there is still no way they spend 20 million a year just to put people on a false trail. Again, why would the DOD care about ufo followers? What possible threat or influence do the general ufo scene people have over the DOD? They go to Roswell every year and wear foil and Roswell T-shirts and how exactly would this influence the DOD? People believe in all sorts of mythology, the DOD does not care.

If anything it's the opposite. Adam Curtis's 2016 documentary “HyperNormalisation" explains that the government want's people to believe in ufos because it helps muddy the waters when secret tech is spotted.


"“The reality was stranger: the American government might have been making it all up, that they had created a fake conspiracy to deliberately mislead the population. The lights that people imagined were UFOs may in reality have been new high technology weapons that the US government were testing…. The government wanted to keep the weapons secret, but they couldn’t always hide their appearance in the skies, so it is alleged that they chose a number of people to use to spread the rumors that they were really alien visitations.”"
www.salon.com...


But again, if that even is true the DOD didn't spend any money on it, they just created some fake documents and wasted 1 day of an employees work.

There is zero pressure on any gov agency to disclose anything. There are issues with budget disclosures, they mess with the system same as anyone does. But there is not any serious missing money, there is no billion dollars missing from the budget.
I think people just want to believe there are secret programs and massive amounts of information held by all agencies but it doesn't make sense. That was the DOD's program. The Navy probably has their own program.
If the DOD did have some other much larger program what would they even be spending the money on? If ufo's are alien we can't catch them or study them or barely even film them? There is nothing to spend money on?

dod.defense.gov...

I have said this many times on this board, that these ufos could be secret militery projects. Of course that is possible. But this opens up another can of worms. If this is the case, then we have had the technolgy for decades that could change this planet for the better. So, in a sense, if this is the case, then they are covering this up, which in my opinion is worse than covering up that these ufos are ET.

Now, if these ufos have nothing to do with secret government projects, then it is quite obvious that they are covering up what they know. Hence the reason why a lot of evidence has not seen the light of day. If they were so transparent about ufos, why keep the best evidence to themselves?

At the end of the day, me you, and everyone else on here do not know what is going on here. There is speculation and opinions, but one thing is for sure, is that the evidence is overwhelming that something unknown is flying in our airspace. Be it our own craft or something else.

OK.. so I want to believe Lazar. More than most. However, there are 2 things that for me make him seem nonsensical...

What involvement with Bob does Richard Doty have? Jeremy Corbell , in a quick statement on a podcast (link below), states that Richard Doty was present during the first raid by the feds at united nuclear.. but I've never seen/heard/read anything more than Corbell's passing comment. Was this all a part of the Mirage Men conspiracy? He very quickly changes the subject, and I would too, as why would you want Bob Lazar's name to be associated with Richard Doty's?

The Black Vault Podcast - Jeremy Corbell (He starts discussing it at around the 38 minute mark)

And secondly. The Russians. I read on here that someone believes the US were trying to find the Russian sleeper spies and made this story up, through Bob Lazar, so that they would travel the Las Vegas and close to Area 51 where the US could expose them... and that Bob Lazar was almost used as bait... And up until recently, I often wondered what the Russians would of been doing once this story leaked... did none of them try to contact Lazar to question him or speak to him regarding what he saw and what information he had, I also then once felt like it was the Russians who tried to kill Bob when he was shot at as either a) revenge because he would not talk to them or b) because then if they were successful in killing him, it would look like the US had killed Bob and therefore his claims would look more credible and that the US would then have to disclose information, and the Russians could obtain it that way...

HOWEVER...

On a recent youtube vodcast, Bob stated that as he worked in teams of 2 on the craft, and that there was a Russian team... and that they apparently discovered something, but WITHHELD what they had found from the American's... Could this even be possible, would they even be ALLOWED to with-hold information, is there any other mention of Russian's working on back-engineering these crafts? Surely if they with-held something they would be denied access to the crafts thereafter? Just what exactly was the Russian's involvement on this?

Secure Team 10 YoutTube Bob Lazar Interview (He discusses the Russians at around the 55 minute mark)

The Russian narrative is tough to listen to, because oddly enough of all the things Bob has said, I find that the most difficult to believe (of all the stories of aliens and space craft, the thing I find hard to believe is that the American's would allow the Russians access to the alien space craft! Go figure!)

BUT, it's the Doty comment that I cannot understand. Why would you admit that a known disinformation agent was in the same location/room and present at the same event as Bob Lazar... It throws everything thats been said for 30 years into question for me.

I notice with Corbell that he constantly THRIVES on being the one who delivers new information. In all interviews I always hear him discuss how he was the first to break the Tic-Tac incident, how HE found the video of the cloud chamber footage, how HE found the guy who vetted Lazar for Area 51 yada yada yada, so it's almost like on that podcast he gets carried away with himself wanting to be the person who delivers new news.... drops the Doty comment as no one has ever heard that before... then doesn't elaborate or talk about it anymore, almost as if he realises he may of just planted doubt in all of the believers

But. I still want to believe....

originally posted by: Jay-morris


I have said this many times on this board, that these ufos could be secret militery projects. Of course that is possible. But this opens up another can of worms. If this is the case, then we have had the technolgy for decades that could change this planet for the better. So, in a sense, if this is the case, then they are covering this up, which in my opinion is worse than covering up that these ufos are ET.

Now, if these ufos have nothing to do with secret government projects, then it is quite obvious that they are covering up what they know. Hence the reason why a lot of evidence has not seen the light of day. If they were so transparent about ufos, why keep the best evidence to themselves?

At the end of the day, me you, and everyone else on here do not know what is going on here. There is speculation and opinions, but one thing is for sure, is that the evidence is overwhelming that something unknown is flying in our airspace. Be it our own craft or something else.

They could be military projects but the stories could be greatly exaggerated and the tech really wouldn't change the planet. Or could be far too expensive or unreliable to mass produce or use frequently.

Other agencies probably have programs and have secrets. But the narrative about the gov coverup when it comes to the DOD seems to have been shown to be false. Much of the ufo field is mythical narratives. What this seems to be with the DOD is they tried to study ufos and it just isn't possible. The footage they had was likely what the Navy allowed them to see and they just don't have the resources to make any progress studying ufos.
That makes sense.
I'm just trying to follow where the evidence leads. If you come at it with an agenda (every agency knows all about ufos and has secrets that would prove their reality) then you view evidence in that light.
It looks like the DOD is clueless which makes sense because they don't have the resources the military does.

I'm saying I do not think the DOD program was all a cover up to cover a larger program. They deal with terrorists, spies, hackers, they don't have fighter jets and NORAD and all the tech the military has.