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Noahs Arc and Dinosaurs???

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posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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I want to apologize to everyone for the confusion between me and expert999 (b1luetooth). I learned that expert999 and B1luetooth are indeed the same person and is indeed not a he but a she. apparently she is my wife who has been pretending to be me to get my message out. (not my message, I believe its Gods message but thats another subject) I want to apologize for all of the confusion, now everything makes sense, and I understand why some members speculated the way they did (same IP address, same writing style, same Kent Hovind)).

honestly I feel pretty dumb right now for not knowing what my wife does on my computer while im at work and I again want to apologize to everyone.

my email is EvolutionCruncher@gmail.com
hers is expert999@gmail.com and when she showed me that it was her account I was pretty hott. she told me the whole story of how she had an interest in thei topic and somewhat watched the Hovind DVDs when I watched them, and how she saw that you guys were getting a little suspicious, and the story goes on.

if you have any questions on this incident, please discuss it via email instead of letting personal matters beceom known on a forum.

I dont know about you all, but im pretty mad, for two reasons, she didnt tell me she was pretending to be me, (I believe that is against the policy on this site) and she almost got me kicked off this site and I didnt even do anything wrong (not yet at least).
but again, (riley) I myself dont want to cause any trouble I just want to discuss and share beliefs and also, yes, I want to have my beliefs challenged. it is healthy.

but as for now. im still gonna post on other threads and stuff, if you have any questions about this, send me an email, we can discuss...

thanks




posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
ok riley, think whatever you want, I have people as my friends on myspace and I dont even know their names but I know thay they live in this town. it doesnt mean that I am all over myspace, it means that I simply dont know their names. and yes we both share the same interest in Kent Hovind (ill try not to use DR since you guys dont think he earned that title fairly) that is why I use the terms, "pink one and a blue one" its because Kent Hovind uses the smae terms. I use everything Kent uses. but I first research his sources before going out and claiming them to be true.

anyways, back to the subject. bottom line. all I am here for is discussion and explaining my beliefs and discussing science with many of you intelligent people. also to learn things by discussion. yea I share the same goals as Kent Hovind and I believe in the same book and same creation theory, but that does not mean that I am automatically wrong, nor does it make me the expert999 jsut because we may have the same style of writing or same sources of live in the same town without even knowing eachothers names. now I dont know if he knows my name, but I dont know his, I dont really care to know, all I know is that Expert999 is not the easiest person to talk to on this topic for the same reason most people dont like talking about this topic, it rubs them the wrong way, sometimes.

anyways, I dont want to cause any trouble, I just want to discuss,

if you get Kent Hovinds 7th video in the series called questions and answers, he explains how he got his PHD and where.
I think more people need to watch his series before they go telling everyone else that he is a liar.

But he is a liar.


do some research on him youself. you will find that he has many good points. I did. and I wasnt even a christian when I watched his videos.

I'd really like to know what specific you find convincing. He has a website, drdino.com, that you might want to peruse to get any specifics. I've looked into hovinds arguements, and I have to stress, they are piss-poor. They demonstrate a lack of understanding of basic science, and arguably religion too!


Don't worry about the rest of that stuff. No need to leave the thread. Weirdness happens in life.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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I'd really like to know what specific you find convincing. He has a website, drdino.com, that you might want to peruse to get any specifics. I've looked into hovinds arguements, and I have to stress, they are piss-poor. They demonstrate a lack of understanding of basic science, and arguably religion too!


Cosmic/Chemical/Stellar/Organic and Macro Evolution, how they are religious or taken by faith rather than scientifically proven. because you cant prove those 5. you have to believe that it took place.

it makes sense to me, I guess thats where I am getting at. those 5 points are what got me interested in this huge topic, and now I study my butt off trying to learn more about everything that has to do with science.

but even if Dr Hovind isnt a real Dr. or didnt get a real PHD. I still think that he brings forth some interesting point about the bible and can fit the bible into scientifici explanations, not the entire bible but at least some parts.

you cant prove that Jesus turned water into wine, and I admit, you have to take that by faith. you cant prove that God made the heaven and the earth, and I take that along with the rest of the bible by faith, I believe that those 5 terms of evolution have to be taken the same way, which is why I agree with Kent hovind on this, that evolution is a religion. it fits the religious definition. Time seems to be the god that makes evolution happen. no one knows if it actually did.

you probably get my point by now, thats just where I stand as well as Dr Hovind. thats just how we view it. we think that one of those two theories is wrong. thats our faith based on the bible.

oh and thanks for that encouragement for this past incident. im still kinda fired up about the whole thing.

thanks



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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Thats our faith based on the bible.


Why do you have so much faith in the bible? In no way am I trying to be rude, I'm just curious.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Agentdemon]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
Cosmic/Chemical/Stellar/Organic and Macro Evolution, how they are religious or taken by faith rather than scientifically proven. because you cant prove those 5. you have to believe that it took place.


Originally posted by expert999
The word Evolution actually has 6 meanings here they are:

1. Cosmic Evolution – The origin with time space and matter (religious)
2. Stellar Evolution – The forming of the starts (religious) stars cannot form according to boyles gas laws
3. Chemical Evolution – the forming of all the elements (religious) fusion works, but you cant fuse past iron
4. Organic Evolution – The origin of life (religious) life begets life. With or without oxygen, life cannot form from non-living material
5. Macro Evolution – changing from a kind of animal or plant to a different animal or plant (religious) no one has ever seen this happen
6. Micro Evolution – variety in the kind (scientific) variation in the kind of animal has been scientificallty proven.


I feel like I know Hovind already
, but don't worry I will never bring this up again. Consider it dropped.

You are right Evolution Cruncher, science does make some speculation. They look at the evidence around them and make an educated guess that is supported by what we see.

You can choose to believe a religion, or evolution or even both. I think that it takes far more faith to believe a religion than evolution.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
Cosmic/Chemical/Stellar/Organic and Macro Evolution, how they are religious or taken by faith rather than scientifically proven. because you cant prove those 5. you have to believe that it took place.

No i mean why specifically do you think that those theories are beleived without reason? Keep in mind that no scientific theory is ever proven, not evolution, not inflation, not atomic theory, not the theory of gravity, nothing. Scientific theories are never proven, they don't become facts after being un-refuted for a while.



and can fit the bible into scientifici explanations, not the entire bible but at least some parts.

Why would you want to do that tho?

Science, I think everyone can agree, can't disprove that god exists or prove that he does, it can't disprove that a mircale occured in this or that instance, and it can't even work with any super-natural, meta-physical things. THe bible and science, technically, can't be in conflict, because the bible is not a tawdry, wordly, scientific document, nor should it be.

Also not for nothing but its not much of an accomplishment to be able to re-intepret things into a biblical framework. You can say anything to get a biblical passage to work as a 'reading' on some scientific or historical fact.


you cant prove that God made the heaven and the earth, and I take that along with the rest of the bible by faith, I believe that those 5 terms of evolution have to be taken the same way,

But they haven't. No scientists simply beleives these things based on faith. Why would anyone anyway? There's nothing to inspire faith in any of those things, they're 'just' descriptions of the world around us.


which is why I agree with Kent hovind on this, that evolution is a religion. it fits the religious definition.

The problem is that it fits the definition of a science. Religion is something that people have an irrational faith in, iow, no scientific evidence or rational consideration of an experimental result is going to undo that faith. That is not a description of evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory, its accepted by most scientists because its strongly supported by the evidence, its predictions and necessary implications are confirmed, and it has stood up to trememdous tests at refuting it.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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well here is the way I see it, its just my view im saying your wrong for believing in evo,ution.

but here, this might sound familiar and yes it is what Kent Hovind teaches...

Cosmic Evolution- the origin of time space and matter. all three must come into existance at once. either they always existed of they came into existance. the big bang tries to explain this, but the theory starts out with nothing. the big bang says that the from the state of nothingness, the universe began in a gigantic explosion. no one knows if thats what really happened. but I suspect the a few scientific laws would contradict that theory.

the first and second law of thermodynamics.
matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed. it can be transformed, but thats all. how did matter and energy get here? was it always here? is the universe eternal? is matter eternal? it time eternal, will time ever end? since there is time, time had to have a beginning, so matter and energy and space also have to have a beginning. also everything tends toward choas or disorder. the big bang, or cosmic evolution is not proven, there are scientific laws that go against it. the first two laws of thermodynamics and the law of conservation of angular momentum which states that if a spinning object breaks apart in a frictionless environment, the pieces that break off will be spinning in the same direction and if not, at least orbiting in the same direction. there are problems all over the universe where this law is contradicted. from just these two laws that I mentioned the big bang could not have made everything.

againt, you are welcome to believe anything you want, but this is enough to show me that the big bang couldnt happen.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
I want to apologize to everyone for the confusion between me and expert999 (b1luetooth). I learned that expert999 and B1luetooth are indeed the same person and is indeed not a he but a she. apparently she is my wife who has been pretending to be me to get my message out. (not my message, I believe its Gods message but thats another subject) I want to apologize for all of the confusion, now everything makes sense, and I understand why some members speculated the way they did (same IP address, same writing style, same Kent Hovind)).

honestly I feel pretty dumb right now for not knowing what my wife does on my computer while im at work and I again want to apologize to everyone.

but Zedd..
never mind.

Thanks for clearing that up Cruncher.


Anyway.. any thoughts on the origin of the Aborigines?
They've been here for min 35 thousand years pre Noah.. and unlike the rest of the world have had absolutely no exposure to the OT.. if they came from Noah they would have.. and the bible would have recorded going all the way to Australia which has never been completely immerced in water [though there was an inland sea for some time].

[edit on 28-7-2005 by riley]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Why do you have so much faith in the bible? In no way am I trying to be rude, I'm just curious.


I have faith because God has shown me what he can do for me if I follow his plan and not mine. yes he wants us to have a plan for our life, but if he wants me to do something for him, im going to do it, because I get rewarded, anyone who loves God and does what he says get rewarded. the bible says that all things work together for good for those who love God. im not saying that nothing good ever happend to bad people, im saying that God promises that if you love him, all things will work together for good.

also, I dont want to go to hell. that may sound like a fairytale, but I dont want to go. cuz if I go there, ill be stuck there for a long time called eternity. that means you never get out.

also, the bible gives me a purpose, something to live for and to look forward to. I look forward to going to heaven. I really do.

so what if I am wrong, and we all come from a big bang? it doesnt mean a thing, but what if you are wrong? you going to spend the rest of you eternity in hell wondering why you didnt listen.

when I read the bible, I get a great feeling inside of me that makes me feel worth something more than just a human. I mean what if you had the chance to meet the creator of the universe? to live with him? to learn fro him? I also believe in the bible because there is no way any living thing came into existance by chance, everything is designed.

these are a few brief reaons why I have my faith in the bible



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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Thanks Evolution Cruncher.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Anyway.. any thoughts on the origin of the Aborigines?
They've been here for min 35 thousand years pre Noah.. and unlike the rest of the world have had absolutely no exposure to the OT.. if they came from Noah they would have.. and the bible would have recorded going all the way to Australia which has never been completely immerced in water [though there was a sea in the middle for some time].


well ive done some research on the aboriginals, there calendar is based on the growth of certain plants. so there calendar can be way off.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
also, I dont want to go to hell. that may sound like a fairytale, but I dont want to go. cuz if I go there, ill be stuck there for a long time called eternity. that means you never get out.

also, the bible gives me a purpose, something to live for and to look forward to. I look forward to going to heaven. I really do.


That is how the Church gained power, and how it continues to grow. They play off of your fear to get you to listen. They play off your hope to get you to listen. The government and the Church have both done this to control the masses. Big groups of people are very stupid and very dangerous if they are afraid. How many innocent people were burned by mobs, believing them to be witches? Do you remember the War of the Worlds and that chaos that caused?

I just hope you don't believe everything you are told. Be skeptical and try to use logic whenever possible. I think it was riley who said:
If Mother Teresa was not a Christian, would she go to hell, despite all the good she had done?
I mean if you are a good person, and God still sends you to hell, would you even want to go to Heaven?



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
well ive done some research on the aboriginals, there calendar is based on the growth of certain plants. so there calendar can be way off.

What calender? [Source of your research please]
China has a different calender as well.. the chirstian calender does not negate other calenders.. and if other calender's contradict yours.. it does not mean they are wrong. Your point is not really relevent however.. the forty thousand years does not come from an aboriginal calender [if there is such a thing] ..and you didn't answer all my questions. Please make a better attempt.

Remember as well.. there have been many human fossils found.. if humans have only been around for 6000 years; they would not exist.. I'm pretty sure fossills take alot longer to form than that.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by riley]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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well the bible says that its not good works that gets you into heaven, all that gets you into heaven is believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead and defeated life. and all you have to do is turn from your sin and then live for God.

thats all. just accept the gift of eternal life given by Christ. thats all, no one is going to go to heaven just because they are a good person. they can be a good person but not believe in God, guess where they are going according to the bible? they are going to hell. they didnt have faith in Jesus Christ. and thats where many people misunderstand the bible, and call God unfair for not accepting good people even though they dont believe in Jesus.

the church isnt using my fear to do anything. I fear God. now im not afraid of him, I fear him as in honor and respect. I read Gods word and I dont even go to church, I read the bible straight as it is. I believe it is a good thing to go to church, some churches out there are not of God,and the bible says to avoid all appearances of evil and to be associated with a church that is not of God would be going against what the bible says, the bible says to keep the sabbath holy. it is the day of rest, it does not require us to go to church, it just says keep it holy. I try to give a little bit of my time to God every day, I dont think I am doing a great job right now, but I am trying. and thats all God wants, he wants your effort.

now I dont go burning witches, I dont need to, and if I ever did meet a witch I wouldnt burn them, Jesus said to love your enemies. I try to be just like Jesus. its pretty hard but I still try. Jesus didnt go kill the murderers of the tax collectors, or the people who committed sins all the time. he loved them and had them follow him. he didnt follow them, he had them follow him.

I can see charlie that you understand where I stand when I make statements that I disagree or that I think so-and-so is wrong. im not trying to tell everyone that they are wrong. im just trying to present my opinion and have them challenged. I do respect everyone on this forum, especially anyone who tries to understand where I am coming from.

thanks



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I think it was riley who said:
If Mother Teresa was not a Christian, would she go to hell, despite all the good she had done?
I mean if you are a good person, and God still sends you to hell, would you even want to go to Heaven?



Doing good doesn't earn eternity in heaven with God. If that was the case then millionaires would be guaranteed heaven because they can throw alot of money at charities.

If the President was coming to town and you were told you could see him and shake his hand, but there was a catch, you have to buy your ticket for the $2,500 a plate dinner first, alot of people would be left out because they weren't able to do the required amount of giving to see the President.

God doesn't work that way. To see Him you need do ONE thing, accept Christ. This makes everyone equal and proves God loves us all. The wealthiest man or woman with 2 billion in their bank account is on the same level as the homeless man or woman who sleeps in a cardboard box. Anyone who desires to see and live with The King of the Universe can.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I think it was riley who said:
If Mother Teresa was not a Christian, would she go to hell, despite all the good she had done?
I mean if you are a good person, and God still sends you to hell, would you even want to go to Heaven?



Doing good doesn't earn eternity in heaven with God. If that was the case then millionaires would be guaranteed heaven because they can throw alot of money at charities.

If the President was coming to town and you were told you could see him and shake his hand, but there was a catch, you have to buy your ticket for the $2,500 a plate dinner first, alot of people would be left out because they weren't able to do the required amount of giving to see the President.

God doesn't work that way. To see Him you need do ONE thing, accept Christ. This makes everyone equal and proves God loves us all. The wealthiest man or woman with 2 billion in their bank account is on the same level as the homeless man or woman who sleeps in a cardboard box. Anyone who desires to see and live with The King of the Universe can.


My post never said anything about money and charities. I never said anyone wasnt equal. I said if you are a good person and just try to make the world a better place it would be stupid to send you to hell. What about the people who never heard anything about Christianity before they died? Do they go to hell too? Why would God give me doubt and then punish me if I used it?



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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the forty thousand years does not come from an aboriginal calender [if there is such a thing]


my question to that is, then where did that get 40,000 years? and actually when I looked it up on goolge it said 40,000 to 80,000 years [which by the way is a 200% error]

I still believe the bible,

in response to charlie,
I dont know what God does with those who have never heard of him. I hope that they go to heaven being that they never heard of Christ, its kinda like the child, before they can even understand what salvation is all about, they automatically go to heaven, because they dont understand the meaning.
I would think that God would show the same mercy on them, I dont know that for sure, im not God, which is probably a good thing.

but the bible says in Ephesians 2:8 for by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God.
John 3:16 says ...whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life...

so you have to believe (have faith) in Christ that he died for your sins in order to go to heaven.

no good work will get you into heaven

the bible also says in Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life though Christ Jesus our Lord.
this means that if we break Gods laws just once, we deserve to go to hell unless we can find a substitute, Jesus Christ is the substitute. and eternal life in heaven is a gift, all you have to do is accept it. thats all by having faith in Jesus Christ like mentioned before.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher



the forty thousand years does not come from an aboriginal calender [if there is such a thing]


my question to that is, then where did that get 40,000 years? and actually when I looked it up on goolge it said 40,000 to 80,000 years [which by the way is a 200% error]



40-80 thousands years is an estimate of how far back they existed in australia.. and how is 'by the way a 200% error'? There is no such thing as 200%- and it's not an error.
I notice how you completely avoided my other questions.. again. Seems to be a habbit of yours.

Please don't just change the subject, avoid points or answer questions with questions or 'it's wrong so there'/'the bible says otherwise' without providing evidence to back your opinion. Why is australia not in the bible? How were koalas rescued? How were they fed? Why were aboriginals spared by the flood.. and why did they never hear about the OT? How did dinosaurs end up inside rock that are millions of years old if they were rescued by Noah 6000 years ago? Did he travel back in time before humans existed?

You cannot answer scientific questions with the bible. It is not a scientific journal.. it is a book of fables, parables and myths.. written at a time when most people were illiterate and scientific thought barely existed.

[edit on 29-7-2005 by riley]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Remember as well.. there have been many human fossils found.. if humans have only been around for 6000 years; they would not exist.. I'm pretty sure fossills take alot longer to form than that.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by riley]


Actually they are occuring now and have occured quicker than 6000 years. From what i understand it all depends on the conditions. Here is one instance widely touted, even by horvind, Fossilized foot Not sure of it's autheticity though. Here is one from talkorigins.org



Fossils can form rapidly, so fossils are not a problem for a young earth.
.....
Many fossils occur in amber, and the formation of amber cannot happen rapidly. First, plant resin polymerizes to produce copal, which takes thousands of years. Then the volatile oils must evaporate, which can take millions of years more.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by silentlonewolf
Actually they are occuring now and have occured quicker than 6000 years. From what i understand it all depends on the conditions. Here is one instance widely touted, even by horvind,

As far as I remember the 'fossilised cowboy boot' is a proven fraud. Regarding real fossils.. I should have been more specific. If you find one imbedded 30 feet inside a rock.. chances are it took a couple of millenia to get there. Some kinds of rocks have an minumum age limit.. I think diamond would be much older in comparison to limestone for instance. It depends on the type of fossil and the minerals that created it.. and the age of the fossil is the age of the rock layer it is imbedded in.

Fossils can form rapidly, so fossils are not a problem for a young earth.
.....
Many fossils occur in amber, and the formation of amber cannot happen rapidly. First, plant resin polymerizes to produce copal, which takes thousands of years. Then the volatile oils must evaporate, which can take millions of years more.

I'm unsure what point you are making with this.. it says amber can take millions of years to form.

[edit on 29-7-2005 by riley]



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