OK my friend ( trust_no_one on abovetopsecret ) say's that there's a connection between the noahs arc flood and the global flood that help kill all dinosours. He say's that when the flood happend it killed all animal ( dino's ) but when he got two of each animal he did'nt take any dinosours ( but crocas lived because thay can live in water ) but has anyone herd of this or have any sort of proof to back my friend up?
thanks

mod edit: title spelling

[edit on 10-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

i have not heard anything about this before.
ill read into it though

Originally posted by Alien Life Form
but when he got two of each animal he did'nt take any dinosours ( but crocas lived because thay can live in water ) but has anyone herd of this or have any sort of proof to back my friend up?
thanks

I would say the fundamental flaw in this idea is that crocas was not the only water living creature, and for crocas to have survived there would of had to be a least another life form for it to survive on.

I would think it is more an attempt to link biblical with science.

We covered this topic a while back in Sunday School. A couple of things emerged from the discussion.

1) Dinosaurs were not found in the region, and thus were not considered to be "saved."

2) The dinosaurs exsisted on earth a time before God reformed it. (The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on teh face of the deep. - Gen. 1:2). Thus God's transformation of the earth could have been the "big bang."

3) Perhaps there may have been a misinterpretation of the word "flood." The word used was "dulge." There are over 400 accounts from as many ancient and current civilizations that a great enviromental moment happend on the earth. Only the ancient peoples of Iran speak of a "ice age." Their "Noah" build an underground cavern. Thus, the explanation of the sudden demise of dinosaurs.

4) The story of the flood may have stemmed from an actual event - a flooding of the region with a merchant prince (by some accounts it was Gilgamesh) on a boat with much livestock and his family and the flood drifted him out into what is now the Persian Gulf. Thus the Hebrews took the story and made it their own. To teach others that if you don't follow God's plan or ignore him, bad things happen to you. - A theme that bounces around in the Bible. Thus, there was no need to include the dinosaurs.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST!!!

Please understand, that there is no evidence ANYWHERE supporting a global flood. If anyone believes that a global flood is what caused the dinosaurs to become extinct, then they are an uneducated christian hypocrit. Please, do your own research, and prove to me that there was a global flood. I won't hold my breath....

I did calculations on this forum for everyone to see regarding the amount of water that would have been necessary to flood the earth. I will do it again if you want.

There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE!!!! NONE!!!!! NO GLOBAL FLOOD!!!!

If you are foolish enough to believe in that, then provide your evidence and proof.

Originally posted by Seapeople


There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE!!!! NONE!!!!! NO GLOBAL FLOOD!!!!

However, the "flood" in question could have been the ice age, and I believe that if there was a flood it was more localized to a region than global. You're right about there not being a "global flood" because the earth may nto be able to sustain the weight and pressure of all that water.

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
1) Dinosaurs were not found in the region, and thus were not considered to be "saved."

You are not likely to find penguins and polar bears in the same region either. The regional explination fails when so many animals survival is reliant on differing climate conditions.

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy2) The dinosaurs exsisted on earth a time before God reformed it. (The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on teh face of the deep. - Gen. 1:2). Thus God's transformation of the earth could have been the "big bang."

Not really, if god created all and we know dinosaurs were around before man this would negate the gensis story. If we are to believe that god created man after the dinosaurs were gone then this brings up another problem with genesis, vegetation and water would have to of already been present on Earth prior to gods intervention.

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy3) Perhaps there may have been a misinterpretation of the word "flood." The word used was "dulge." There are over 400 accounts from as many ancient and current civilizations that a great enviromental moment happend on the earth. Only the ancient peoples of Iran speak of a "ice age." Their "Noah" build an underground cavern. Thus, the explanation of the sudden demise of dinosaurs.

This is an interesting concept and one I have never actually heard, or recollect. There is evidence, not sure how reliabe, of an ice age in a dsitant past, and the effects of a deep impact of the type described as being the cause of the dinosaurs exstinction would cause an ice age. Again I am no scientist so I cannot prove or disprove the theory.

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy4) The story of the flood may have stemmed from an actual event - a flooding of the region with a merchant prince (by some accounts it was Gilgamesh) on a boat with much livestock and his family and the flood drifted him out into what is now the Persian Gulf. Thus the Hebrews took the story and made it their own. To teach others that if you don't follow God's plan or ignore him, bad things happen to you. - A theme that bounces around in the Bible. Thus, there was no need to include the dinosaurs.

This is a more logical thought.

A site I found interesting is

Originally posted by Seapeople

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST!!!

Please understand, that there is no evidence ANYWHERE supporting a global flood. If anyone believes that a global flood is what caused the dinosaurs to become extinct, then they are an uneducated christian hypocrit.

Easy tiger you'll burst a blood vessel that way.

I dont believe anyone has stated anything of fact and as for calling people Christian hypocrits and uneducated, you only know what you have been taught so the blame should be on the first teacher, not the last student.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Why did you bother doing calcaultions they have already been done many times over, or did you mean you re-published for the readers ease?

A simple google search will give you half a million stating how they prove it did happen and another half a million stating they prove it doesnt.

As for the position of proof, I would like to see you prove withour doubt that it didn't. Without a time machine you can't, you can only go on available evidence, and the simple argument is the prove of the flood just hasn't been found. When it comes to history of that nature there is no 100% fact.

Let's see, tale of Gilgamesh ahs a flood, Aztec creation myth has a flood, Egyption creation myth has a flood. Even the so called "Spark of life" evolutionist use was caused by a great thunderstorm that cooled the earths crust. It is a part of human insticnt to think of a flood that created the world we know. How else could all the water have apeared on earth except to fall from the sky?

Although dinosaur is not mentioned in the Bible, that does not mean that the Bible denies that such huge creatures once existed. In fact, Genesis 1:21 talks about the great creatures of the sea, and in verse 24 we simply read about living creatures. Or read Job 40, beginning with verse 15 and continue through Job chapter 41. There we read about creatures called behemoth and leviathan. They could mean whales, or creatures larger then elephants, perhaps even dinosaurs. However, We need to be careful not to say more than what the Bible describes. Certainly the creatures described are powerful beasts.

In the Bible, we can be certain about somethings regarding dinosaurs. The Lord God created all things in six days, with man being created on the sixth day. So, people and dinosaurs coexisted. There was no time period of millions of years when the dinosaurs "reigned" before humans came on the earth. Before the fall into sin (Adam and Eve), all creatures were perfect. There was no fear or terror in the perfect creation. It might be possible God might have created huge creatures to feed on vegetation that grew so lushly and reproduced so quickly in the perfect creation.

Perhaps God used dinosaurs as his "lawnmowers" in that pre-flood world. There is so much we don't know, for the Scripture doesn't describe in detail earth's conditions. Scripture is interested in telling us what we need to know about eternal life and how the problem of sin was solved in Jesus. Other questions, though interesting, sometimes stay unanswered. We do know that after the fall into sin, creation was also infected and things changed. (Romans 8:20-22) Indeed, after the flood we read that God placed the fear and dread of humans into the animals. (Genesis 9:2)

Were dinosaurs on the ark? If dinosaurs were still in existence at the time of the flood, then a male and female would have been aboard. The bible does not have the details for us. The Bible does not say that fully grown adults had to be the pair for each animal group. Perhaps very young "dinosaur children" were taken. Perhaps during the time on the flood the Lord allowed the creatures to go into a type of hibernation. Ideas like this are not meant to be the perfect answer, but rather to show that there are so many ways our powerful and gracious God can accomplish his will.

After the flood, dramatic changes are listed in the earth's climate. (Genesis 8:22) Now, perhaps, any dinosaurs that left the ark could no longer survive in such a world. The flood itself, would have changed the earth. (the forces of the flood certainly are compatible with the formation of fossils, oil deposits, etc.) Bible believing Christians can believe the existence of dinosaurs. Yet christians certainly challenge people and scientists that try to doubt what is in the Bible

I really can't believe anyone thinks the story of Noah’s ark should be taken as the literal truth and not an allegorical tale.

To me it seems like it is self evident that it is not true. I mean, where do you start attacking it, as it is so damn silly?

There are currently estimated to be between 1.4 and 1.75 million species on the planet, and this is probably only 1% of the species that have ever existed. For the purposes of this argument lets just stick to the million and a half species that exist at the moment: Noah would have to have more than 2 each of these animals, as otherwise when it came to reproduction they would have to have incestuous relationships, which would lead to massive in-breeding. Some of these species would require minimum breeding populations in the thousands, some less.

Anyway, again lets massively simplify things and say that somehow with just 2 animals from each species they managed to start full populations. Noah would still have needed 3 million animals on his boat (how big was this thing?!) many of which would have been insects (I hope they took plenty of bite cream). How did they recreate the habitats of each species? How did they feed the animals? Many of which feed on each other, but with only 2 animals you can't really let this happen.

Actually I must stop this now, as it is like shooting fish in a barrel. With an RPG.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Although dinosaur is not mentioned in the Bible, that does not mean that the Bible denies that such huge creatures once existed. In fact, Genesis 1:21 talks about the great creatures of the sea, and in verse 24 we simply read about living creatures. Or read Job 40, beginning with verse 15 and continue through Job chapter 41. There we read about creatures called behemoth and leviathan. They could mean whales, or creatures larger then elephants, perhaps even dinosaurs. However, We need to be careful not to say more than what the Bible describes. Certainly the creatures described are powerful beasts.

We actually talked about that, but what surprised me was that the leviathan describes a dragon: "His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his neck." Job 41:18-21. NKJV

There is a dinosaur that scientists believe was aquatic, and it had large cavities in its nostril region to support large sacs. There is no affirmitive why this cavity region was so large. I wish I could recall the name and find a picture.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
In the Bible, we can be certain about somethings regarding dinosaurs. The Lord God created all things in six days, with man being created on the sixth day. So, people and dinosaurs coexisted. There was no time period of millions of years when the dinosaurs "reigned" before humans came on the earth.

Of course what is a day for a being that has no begining and no ending. I think we get numbers like that because it would be easier to understand "a single day" than a few thousand or perhaps millions of years. On the other hand, the whole thing could have happened in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Bible believing Christians can believe the existence of dinosaurs. Yet christians certainly challenge people and scientists that try to doubt what is in the Bible

I actually know a few Christians that believe dinosaurs are a myth and an illusion created by Satan to distract us away from the Bible. So, they don't allow their kids to do anything with dinosaurs and wouldn't even allow them to see "Jurassic Park."

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy

I actually know a few Christians that believe dinosaurs are a myth and an illusion created by Satan to distract us away from the Bible. So, they don't allow their kids to do anything with dinosaurs and wouldn't even allow them to see "Jurassic Park."

That would be funny if it wasn't so ignorant. Does nobody else find it frightening that people are bringing there children up to deny rationality? It's like we are trying to take civalisation back several hundred (or even thousand) years.

I did the calculations on this forum. I wrote the numbers down in threads for everyone to see. Simply believing what you read on some website is not an acceptable method for me even though it is for christians.

Those numbers are not just there to look at. The arrival is also detailed. Those calculations prove conclusively that there is not a possible way that water as described in genesis could have flooded the earth in that manor. Thats the end of the story.

Couple that with NO EVIDENCE of a global flood (christians, prove it to us all...give us the evidence, I challenge you), and you have your answers. It is sickning that people would criticize me for doing those calculations as you did. You are a fool, and you are ignorant. Everyone should bother seeking knowledge. I did those calculations so I could be sure as well as you. Instead of criticising people for using their brains, you should embrace it. But that would mean you would have to think on your own....hmmmmm. Wouldn't want that now would we.

Originally posted by Alien Life Form
OK my friend ( trust_no_one on abovetopsecret ) say's that there's a connection between the noahs arc flood and the global flood that help kill all dinosours.

Since when was a global flood responsible for killing the dinosaurs?
Heck, since when was there a global flood?

He say's that when the flood happend it killed all animal ( dino's ) but when he got two of each animal he did'nt take any dinosours

How convientient. I suppose all extinct animals, like therapsids and what not and all the pre-dinosaurian animals, missed the boat also eh?

( but crocas lived because thay can live in water )

Then why didn't other large water dwelling reptiles, like plesiosaurs and icthyosaurs, also survive? For that matter how did fresh water fish survive if there was that much brackish water, or, if it was mostly fresh, how did the salt water fish survive. They can't both survive.

but has anyone herd of this or have any sort of proof to back my friend up?

Of course not, its sheer fantasy.

---

monkeyboy
Dinosaurs were not found in the region, and thus were not considered to be "saved."

But koalas and the like were in the region? And kangaroos and polar bears?

The dinosaurs exsisted on earth a time before God reformed it.

Ah, this is somethign that often happens with various things related to creationism. Scripture is mangled and changed in order to conform to pseudo-scientific speculations.

Thus, the explanation of the sudden demise of dinosaurs.

The dinosaurs may not indeed have died out suddenly, but besides that there are various other animal groups that died out at entirely different times but on scales just as large as the KT extinction.

However, the "flood" in question could have been the ice age

The ice in the age age didn't extend much futher south than a lattitude corresponding to northern europe tho.

I believe that if there was a flood it was more localized to a region than global.

Indeed, this is the most reasonable explanation. The people who made the biblical flood myth were from a society that had in its past experienced a devastating, but local flood. Thus their world was destroyed, not 'the' world.

---

jehosophat
Let's see, tale of Gilgamesh ahs a flood, Aztec creation myth has a flood, Egyption creation myth has a flood

And, not surprisingly, the geographic locals of each of these cultures are prone to flooding.

If dinosaurs were still in existence at the time of the flood, then a male and female would have been aboard.

Male and female what tho? One pair of dinosaurs is enough for all the different types? And are dinosaurs kosher or non kosher? There'd be a lot more than two if kosher.

All I know is there were 2 Greyhounds that were aboard Noah's Ark. One of them discovered a small leak that surely would have led to the sinking of the Ark. So the Greyhound stuck his nose in the hole to plug the leak, while the other Greyhound went and got Noah. Noah was able to plug the hole. This is the reason why dog's have wet noses today! Long live the greyhounds!!!!!

Originally posted by Seapeople
FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST!!!

Please understand, that there is no evidence ANYWHERE supporting a global flood. If anyone believes that a global flood is what caused the dinosaurs to become extinct, then they are an uneducated christian hypocrit. Please, do your own research, and prove to me that there was a global flood. I won't hold my breath....

I did calculations on this forum for everyone to see regarding the amount of water that would have been necessary to flood the earth. I will do it again if you want.

There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE!!!! NONE!!!!! NO GLOBAL FLOOD!!!!

If you are foolish enough to believe in that, then provide your evidence and proof.

wow that is really ignorint. and as the person who gave ALF the idea for this thread i want to say some stuff that he left out.

1: their is evidence of a global flood, there are tree stumps in deserts that are thousands of years old and are though to have been carried by water for miles away.
2: they think they found noahs ark in a mountian range somewere in the middle east
3: if it was a global flood that wiped out the dinos then it would have made the strata mix up (dinosaure bones sink to bottom, and human float to top) and thats why they think that they existed so many years before
4: they resently found a dino with a small mamal (cat like or something) in its stomach, but mamals wernt supposed to exist for thousands of years after the dinos too so if mamles wernt supposed to exist then and we have evidense of it now then y is it so hard to believe that humans did too?
5: their are footprint fossils with a dino fotprint and a human footprint inside, although i think a while ago it was found to be froud but im not sure
6: i would get some other evidense/explinations but im in a hury
PPS: thanks for stealing my topic ALF

ttfn

Originally posted by trust_no_one
1: their [sic]is evidence of a global flood, there are tree stumps in deserts that are thousands of years old and are though to have been carried by water for miles away.

How is that evidence for a global flood? its either eivdence for a local flood or for the area having once simply not been a desert.

2: they think they found noahs [sic]ark in a mountian[sic] range somewere [sic] in the middle east

There have been claims, but all evidence presented for this has not actually supported it.

3: if it was a global flood that wiped out the dinos then it would have made the strata mix [sic]up (dinosaure bones sink to bottom, and human float to top) and thats why they think that they existed so many years before

If there was a single global flood that accounted for the entire fossil record then there'd be no sorting and no explanation for the actual sequence within the fossil record.

4: they resently [sic]found a dino with a small mamal (cat like or something) in its stomach, but mamals wernt [sic] supposed to exist for thousands of years after the dinos

Whoever told you that last bit is uneducated and ignorant. Mammals existed alongside of the dinosaurs, and the mammal-like reptiles from which mammals stem are older than dinosaurs.

5: their [sic]are footprint fossils with a dino fotprint and a human footprint inside, although i think a while ago it was found to be froud [sic]but im[sic]not sure

You cite as one of your primary evidences something that you think might've been a fraud but might not be?

yeah...

one problem with this theory...

man and dinos never lived togther...

if their was a global flood they strata would get mixed up like it is (dinosaures at bottom human at top) because dinosaur bones are bigger and heavier

"If there was a single global flood that accounted for the entire fossil record then there'd be no sorting and no explanation for the actual sequence within the fossil record. "

and mamels and dino's were never thought to live together either

"Whoever told you that last bit is uneducated and ignorant. Mammals existed alongside of the dinosaurs, and the mammal-like reptiles from which mammals stem are older than dinosaurs. "

Originally posted by trust_no_one

Originally posted by Seapeople
FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST!!!

Please understand, that there is no evidence ANYWHERE supporting a global flood. If anyone believes that a global flood is what caused the dinosaurs to become extinct, then they are an uneducated christian hypocrit. Please, do your own research, and prove to me that there was a global flood. I won't hold my breath....

I did calculations on this forum for everyone to see regarding the amount of water that would have been necessary to flood the earth. I will do it again if you want.

There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE!!!! NONE!!!!! NO GLOBAL FLOOD!!!!

If you are foolish enough to believe in that, then provide your evidence and proof.

wow that is really ignorint. and as the person who gave ALF the idea for this thread i want to say some stuff that he left out.

1: their is evidence of a global flood, there are tree stumps in deserts that are thousands of years old and are though to have been carried by water for miles away.
2: they think they found noahs ark in a mountian range somewere in the middle east
3: if it was a global flood that wiped out the dinos then it would have made the strata mix up (dinosaure bones sink to bottom, and human float to top) and thats why they think that they existed so many years before
4: they resently found a dino with a small mamal (cat like or something) in its stomach, but mamals wernt supposed to exist for thousands of years after the dinos too so if mamles wernt supposed to exist then and we have evidense of it now then y is it so hard to believe that humans did too?
5: their are footprint fossils with a dino fotprint and a human footprint inside, although i think a while ago it was found to be froud but im not sure
6: i would get some other evidense/explinations but im in a hury
PPS: thanks for stealing my topic ALF

ttfn

First off, you are really ignorant. Half of the incredibally unthought out information you gave us as evidence for a flood HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A FLOOD. But its funny seeing how people who can't connect a single coherant thought write on message boards like yourself. Show me the evidence of a submerged mount everest. And bonehead...where is Noahs ark? They believe they found it...well why don't they show us all. You know how that stupid rumor started? A news network aired a hoax show unknowingly. An athiest conned christians all over the world by telling them he found noah's ark...JUST TO SHOW HOW GULLABLE THEY REALLY ARE. You fit the gullable bill for still holding onto this fairy tail years after the guy admitted he was trying to fool you. THEY HAVE NEVER FOUND NOAHS ARK, AND THEY NEVER WILL. But it will be fun watching you wait your whole life for that and the rapture and such...nice.

Where is the evidence of a cat inside a dinosaur that you say they have found? The dinosaur footprints with humans is in no way evidence by the way. You are gullable again for believing it. If you do a simple internet search on google, you will find about 1000 websites claiming that dinosaur and human footprints found together are evidence of tere coexistance. What you would have left out is that they are ALL CHRISTIAN WEBSITES. A little biased do you think?

I will reiterate something. If you had ever opened a book and actually read anything in your short and uneducated life, you would know that there are such things as water pressure, air pressure, gravity, and raw material. There is no way that 5 times the amount of water on earth todat could have dissapeared. Are you truly that foolish (Rhetorical question)? The bible states the size of the ark. It would hardly fit 1000 people with food for a week today. Do you want me to go again and provide that info again? Let alone containing a pair of every living creature and its food for A MINIMUM OF 40 DAYS AS DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE.

There is NO EVIDENCE. You are the fool. You are foolish. You are a blind follower. You will forever be ignorant. I wish there were no people like you. Foolish enough to believe and repeat everything you hear from your uneducated pastors. You don't even know what the bible says yourself. I swear, I am glad organized religion is on a serious decline. Maybe my children won't have to grow up with the uneducated fools I did.

[edit on 3/3/2005 by Seapeople]