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the " sting in the tail " of the alabama abortion bill

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posted on May, 15 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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Did you read the bill? Where in it does it waive the right to a trial?

All it says is that knowingly making a false allegation is now a felony and punishable by 10 years and the accuser must pay the legal bills of those accused when found not guilty.

Just a regular old law nothing violating due process at all.

This thread belongs in the hoax bin
edit on 15-5-2019 by snarfbot because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 15 2019 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: snarfbot

I'm trying to be fair on this one. I read the bill, and it looks like it could be taken a few different ways.

HB544


The bill, introduced by Rep. Dickie Drake, R-Leeds, would make falsely reporting a sex crime a Class C felony and punishable by up to 10 years in prison. If the accused is found not guilty, the accuser would be responsible for paying the accused person’s legal expenses.
This is how AL.com is reporting it. I've seen outlets report things that were a stretch before, so maybe that is the case here.

However, in the bill I didn't read the specifics on how they would conclude someone made false allegations. It clearly defines what is a false accusation, but now how they would come to that conclusion.

It would be a fair assumption that it would be through the court of law, but that is not spelled out in the bill... I'm no lawyer, so maybe that is implied under existing laws.

I'd be curious to hear the reasoning behind the reporters assumption.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: snarfbot

I'm trying to be fair on this one. I read the bill, and it looks like it could be taken a few different ways.

HB544


The bill, introduced by Rep. Dickie Drake, R-Leeds, would make falsely reporting a sex crime a Class C felony and punishable by up to 10 years in prison. If the accused is found not guilty, the accuser would be responsible for paying the accused person’s legal expenses.
This is how AL.com is reporting it. I've seen outlets report things that were a stretch before, so maybe that is the case here.

However, in the bill I didn't read the specifics on how they would conclude someone made false allegations. It clearly defines what is a false accusation, but now how they would come to that conclusion.

It would be a fair assumption that it would be through the court of law, but that is not spelled out in the bill... I'm no lawyer, so maybe that is implied under existing laws.

I'd be curious to hear the reasoning behind the reporters assumption.


Presumably it would be concluded the same way they conclude anything, in court. It's not as though other laws have language talking about whether people accused of violating it are to receive due process or not. That's not a thing lol, laws are enforced the same way and due process is a right.

There's literally nothing in the bill indicating otherwise. This is 100% fake news.



edit on 15-5-2019 by snarfbot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: snarfbot

This may be a case where OP and many others (including me for a few moments) took the article at it's word. If that's the case, I for one admit I was wrong. This wouldn't be the first time a reporter sensationalized something for their agenda or clicks.

I think it's a safe estimation that the new law would go in line with existing due process after reading it, but then again, I'm not a lawyer... So I can't say that definitively.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: ignorant_ape

That is super dangerous... the new round of pro -lifers have forgotten every lesson from the past generations..


The pro-lifers are screwing up hard.... the reason women who falsely accuse others are rarely charges is specificity to avoid the situation where a perpetrator barely got off, and then sued his victim.


They also learned long ago that penalizing the mother didn’t play well with Americans...


Probably because half Americans are women at risk of being raped, incest, exc.. all the extenuating circumstances that even give most pro lifers pause ..


But most importantly they forgot that there is no money in “fixing “ the problem of abortion..


If late term abortion is federally banned everywhere. Then all those who only donate money because they detest late term abortions , stop donating..

Why do you think it is still legal when the gop has had multiple legislative majorities??

Because 80% of pro life donations are from late term abortion last



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I read the whole law and that is what it says...

If we assume someone is innocent, when found innocent in court.

Then by definition their accuser made a false allegation..

And what person who beat a rape charge, innocent or guilty wouldn’t want the validation of your accuser going to jail for falsely accusing you??


Pair that with the fact rape is hard to prove anyway since it is almost always your word vs. theirs.. and this is a disaster waiting to happen..

Sure some women who falsely accuse will be held accountable, but some that were really raped will again be raped by their rapist.. with the cops help this time.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Oof this is scary..


Out of 230 rapes that are reported every year, 46 leads to arrests , 9 get referred to prosecutors and 4.5 get convicted..

Now that is me ignoring unreported rape statistics.. and those should be the objective numbers..




Well if only 5/230 people that are accused are convicted.. then to I’m not sure we have a huge problem with people being falsely convicted...



Or rape literally never happens and a big percentage of that 5/230 are innocent as well , I guess



www.rainn.org...
edit on 15-5-2019 by JustJohnny because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:21 PM
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How do you prove that your statement is true?
People get acquitted even if they are guilty sometimes so does that automatically make the accuser a liar?
I do agree that if the report is false then the person should be held accountable.
And if the accused is found not guilty does the accuser have to pay the legal fees right then or after they are found to have made a false report?



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:25 PM
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And? The burden of proof for making knowingly false statements is significant.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Everyone pays taxes.

If you can pay for nukes(antiquated or otherwise), nonsensical walls, and give billions in foreign aid to places nobody can even spell nor know exist.

You can pay for abortions for your own citizens.

As to women who falsely accuse men of rape going to gaol, i completely agree on that score.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: JHumm
How do you prove that your statement is true?
People get acquitted even if they are guilty sometimes so does that automatically make the accuser a liar?
I do agree that if the report is false then the person should be held accountable.
And if the accused is found not guilty does the accuser have to pay the legal fees right then or after they are found to have made a false report?


No. It wouldn't. There are plenty of cases where someone clearly is making the case in earnest and there is evidence to support their claims, but not enough to convict.

I think we're talking about instances like Duke LaCrosse where it become proven that that the accuser clearly made false accusations and destroyed several young men's lives over it.



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: JHumm
How do you prove that your statement is true?
People get acquitted even if they are guilty sometimes so does that automatically make the accuser a liar?
I do agree that if the report is false then the person should be held accountable.
And if the accused is found not guilty does the accuser have to pay the legal fees right then or after they are found to have made a false report?



It would likely be a slam dunk lawsuit the accused would have to file..


Meaning it wouldn’t be automatic, unless the accused pushes it.

There is a reason we don’t push this kinda thing even though it can suck to an individual case..


The options are ...


What is the lesser evil...

X amount of falsely accused men having no legal recourse for the false allegations.. so any slander or job loss/societal pushback type stuff he would pretty much be screwed..



X amount of real rape victims being fined or jailed , basically by the state o behalf of the rapist, because there wasn’t quite enough evidence to convict.



What the real value of X in each case is very relevant, but I’m not sure we can know it..



posted on May, 15 2019 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

So are you saying someone found innocent of rape is not innocent of rape???


I’m not seeing how you can have it one way without the other..

You are innocent till proven guilty..


You were accused of rape , when you were (found) “innocent”..

How could it not be considered a false allegation from a legal standpoint..


I agree it is meant for the duke lacrosse case, but I don’t see any way to differentiate between the two legally..


I read the whole law and it doesn’t stipulate any specifics that would exclude the cases people mentioned


edit on 15-5-2019 by JustJohnny because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2019 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: ignorant_ape

Also, make no mistake.

A state that's willing to entertain the possibility of criminalizing abortions.

Yet ranks 50th in the public education system.

Don't exactly give a rats-arse about children.




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