Trans[gender] Fact Checker: The Reality Behind the Myths

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Hmmmm... let's define terms. "Perv'd on" indicates perversion, not just attraction. That's a big difference. People will think what they will, and as long as they keep it to themselves and keep it to thoughts (not actions), it's not a problem.

So, yes, chances are that lesbians will find themselves admiring other women in the bathroom and other private spaces. It is what it is and isn't a problem unless and until they get pervvy and make it a problem. Statistically (and criminally) speaking, that's a guy thing... not a lady thing.

And, again, at least women have a fighting chance with another women. If worse comes to absolute worst, then a woman's chances are much better defending herself against another woman, lesbian or not.

I will also note though that violence by women who identify as trans and take testosterone may very well increasingly become a bigger problem. At least one study (I believe it focused on transgender prisoners in England) found that violent and sexual crimes increased among women prisoners who identify as transgender.

OK. I just went back and read your other post again after you responded to my post literally within minutes (apparently were helicoptering here waiting for it. LOL)

Yeah. OK. TBH, I can't say I blame you for feeling the way you do but frankly, I think it's mostly an emotional response . Which (BTW) I also don't blame you for.

I don't recognize your user name and can only judge based upon the posts I see directly above but it seems like (from them) that you obviously have some issues with men so I'll leave it at that. A lot of women do. Some of it I agree with and some of it is irrational misandry. Which (again) is kind of a predictable and understandable response to the state of the world we live in.

I would suggest (however) taking a chill pill and explaining your opinion without the histrionics.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

TBH, I can't say I blame you for feeling the way you do but frankly, I think it's mostly an emotional response.

Fair enough... yes and no. It is an emotional response in that too many women are brutalized by men and that is a crying shame, but based upon sound documented data... and men who identify as transgender retain the same disproportionate rate of violent and sexual crimes. So when it comes to "gender self-ID" and redefining sex-based rates to "gender affirming" rights, which will allow any and all male predators into women's private spaces and otherwise trample women's rights and protections, yeah, I have a problem with it. A big problem with it.

Which (BTW) I also don't blame you for. I don't recognize your user name and can only judge based upon the posts I see directly above but it seems like (from them) that you obviously have some issues with men so I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough. I have big problems with men who behave badly.

A lot of women do. Some of it I agree with and some of it is irrational misandry. Which (again) is kind of a predictable and understandable response to the state of the world we live in.

Yeah, I have problems with women who behave badly too, and I've seen quite a bit of that as well.

And unfortunately, I see too many men and women being too petty and just seeming to want to pick a fight. Not enough focus or attention to the important issues...

I would suggest (however) taking a chill pill and explaining your opinion without the histrionics.

... so your point is well taken, and I will keep in mind that I need to avoid histrionics. However, I pick my battles carefully and when a battle is worth fighting, you fight, and you use fighting words.

A fine line to walk...

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
I will not converse with people who go out of their way to speak to me disrespectfully in an attempt to mock and belittle me by misgendering me.

Either you were born biologically male or female - which is it?

If you were born biologically male, then you are male, period, end of story, and if you are going around claiming to be female, you are the one misgendering yourself.

originally posted by: Jg513
thats not me saying uncle sam should provide me with a job just because i'm trans, but that I can't be fired because I am....which is still very legal in half the country and a real possibility for trans and gay people.

The problem with this is obvious...

If I am a business owner who fires you, not because you are a trans, but because you are a total douche who disrespects other workers and flaunts your transness to the point of creating an extremely disruptive work environment, guess what?

You get to sue me into oblivion, just because you are trans.

Sorry, I will reserve the right to not hire you in the first place, an no government entity will ever tell me otherwise - I'll shut down my business first.

originally posted by: Jg513
Yea except for that whole freedom to not be discriminated against for no other reason than because your trans.

I'm fully supportive of private people being able to discriminate against associating with anyone, for any reason, at any time.

It is called freedom of association.

Yes, this includes the freedom to refuse to hire someone like you who would obviously cause serious problems in the workplace due to your hateful, whiny 'sense of entitlement' attitude.

a reply to: Boadicea

emotional blackmail is used to make the general population believe it's just hateful transphobes who are the problem. 

I guess you havent heard about the roving gangs of nazis and white supremacists everywhere terrorizing the entire planet. You can't leave your house to check the mail without seeing a half dozen or more of them.

You might not recognize them though. They learned expert disguise techniques from the Nazis. They dyed their skin, wear urban clothing, carry bandanas. Call themselves gangstas and pimps...

Like I said theyre everywhere.


I'm about to use some hate speech so plug your ears ladies. Yeah there is something out there that I hate. I hate the fact that boadicea needed to actually state that they are not a transphobe and do not hate trans identifying people, because common sense shouldn't need a disclaimer.

I understand why God didn't allow me to have any kids yet. I would go insane because doing whats best for your kid is now against the law. It would be Ruby Ridge 2.0

Starting with keeping your kid out of school. I can teach my kid better than anyone else and I don't need someone else to give me a special "teaching" license to teach my own kid.

And yeah my education curriculum would involve other people because I don't know everything but I can decide Who I want teaching my kid a lesson.

You think Im gonna let you kidnap my kid for 8 hrs a day to fill their mind with nonsense, destroy their self esteem and potential, and program them into a worker drone? You must be insane.

Then public bathrooms would be a nightmare especially if I had a girl.
Maybe in a few more years things will change.

a reply to: 3n19m470

I'm about to use some hate speech so plug your ears ladies. Yeah there is something out there that I hate. I hate the fact that boadicea needed to actually state that they are not a transphobe and do not hate trans identifying people, because common sense shouldn't need a disclaimer.

Thank you for saying that -- me too!!!

I understand why God didn't allow me to have any kids yet. I would go insane because doing whats best for your kid is now against the law. It would be Ruby Ridge 2.0

I get that! My kids went to school in the 80s and 90s and I was constantly butting heads with teachers and administrators then... I can't even imagine how bad it would be now. Actually, I expect I would be homeschooling. I honestly expect more and more parents will choose homeschooling -- whatever sacrifice it takes -- as this madness grows.

It seems like it will have to get worse before it gets better.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

So basically, only women who "have problems with men" don't want to have naked men in our changing rooms?

The thing is that no matter how mentally a man might think and feel he's a woman, unless he takes drastic steps, his body still looks very, very male, still has all the natural power of a male body. As a woman, it makes me really uncomfortable to think I might be changing at the local pool and turn around and see a naked man walking around in the changing room. For the first thing, there is no sure way to read his mind and know his mental gender. I can't just assume he's pretty sure he's a she in there. That's unsafe for me.

We had a wonderful young teenage girl get snatched from the ladies' changing room at a local pool and murdered horribly because a man went right in a snatched her.

You can't assume anything. Is this a trans or is this a snatcher coming in to prey on us? What if I make the wrong call and pay horribly for it?

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Unfortunately that sort of over-reaction is what prompts ordinary people to lose sympathy for people who are "pro trans"

I saw no bullying in this thread. I mostly lurk on ATS and compared to most other sites it's about as troll free as you can get.

I've even personally known a couple of MtF and one FtM. Both males fully transitioned including surgery. One seemed fairly well-adjusted, passed well but had trouble finding a relationship partner. The other (who I'd known for years) committed suicide after drastic personality changes post-surgery. While I have empathy for them, this whole business of making it trendy or promoting transgender to minors HAS TO STOP. A line has to be drawn somewhere and that doesn't make a person demanding that line be drawn, a "hater". Or -phobic. So does the anti-science nonsense - it's worse than creationism.

Pre-Bruce Jenner, was pretty much a happy medium. People would quietly get the surgery or dress as the opposite sex with the support of close friends ideally, and get on with their lives. Socially or culturally there is a long and varied tradition of a 'third' sex (even discussed in Plato's Symposium), or Eunuchs, or lady-boys or what have you. Is it the norm? No, but not so far out there either. My point, cultures can make room for 'transgender' people, but in a way where it is not promoted among children or minors (I suspect the mothers want children of the opposite sex more than that children are actually gender confused), or where men who make only half-assed attempts at passing are legally allowed in women's spaces, or where there is flat-out science denial.

Lastly, the Big Pharma agenda should be painfully obvious to any impartial observer. Pump a child with puberty blockers, mess with their core identity and you will have a patient for life that will as an individual earn the medical industry hundreds of thousands of dollars. As well as a psychologically unstable individual who can be easily manipulated by others.

a reply to: Annagramma

Pre-Bruce Jenner, was pretty much a happy medium. People would quietly get the surgery or dress as the opposite sex with the support of close friends ideally, and get on with their lives. Socially or culturally there is a long and varied tradition of a 'third' sex (even discussed in Plato's Symposium), or Eunuchs, or lady-boys or what have you. Is it the norm? No, but not so far out there either. My point, cultures can make room for 'transgender' people, but in a way where it is not promoted among children or minors (I suspect the mothers want children of the opposite sex more than that children are actually gender confused), or where men who make only half-assed attempts at passing are legally allowed in women's spaces, or where there is flat-out science denial.

So very well said -- thank you for saying it!!!

There have always and will always be gender nonconforming people -- some by choice, some by circumstance -- and there is room for everyone in society. We had moved past so many gender norms already. Women were entering college and the workforce and the military in ever increasing numbers. No one thinks twice about girls and women in shorts and pants and jeans these days. But I was in the 4th grade before girls were allowed to wear shorts or pants to school! I don't remember anyone making fun of Rosie Grier and his needlepoint. We grew up watching Liberace and Elvis and even Elton John who glammed themselves up like no one else. Can anyone ever forget the sight of rock bands in spandex back in the 80s???

And we all kept it in perspective and carried on. For the vast majority of us, if they're not hurting anyone, it's all good. We could have and should have continued to build on that middle ground and level playing field.

But the Trans Activists pushing the agenda have taken it too far. People living as they want to live and being who they want to be isn't the problem. It's when people's rights are trampled. When kids are harmed with "gender affirming" medicalization with lifelong adverse effects. When girls and women are virtually automatically eliminated from their own sports competitions. When girls and women are put in harm's way by men "self-IDing" their way into private and vulnerable spaces.

Nevertheless, I do believe that good can come from all this chaos and insanity. People do want to be good and kind to their fellow man. Or, at the least, people have the "you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" attitude. After having seen the good, the bad and the ugly, once the smoke clears we will be able to pick out the good and go forward. I know so many people (like myself) who absolutely hate having to fight this battle. We don't want to be angry and hateful and hurtful to anyone, including trans people. But neither can we say or do nothing when so many people are being hurt, and it will keep being hurt.

So many people are just so tired of all the hate and vitriol and animosity everywhere and about everything.