Trump wants to increase tariffs On china again .

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: ADVISOR

Not confused but when a government strongly dictates what consumers can buy and from whom the economy looks a lot more communist.

If you prefer China's cheap crap, order your stuff from them. I prefer quality over quantity. Stress the titty.

I usually don't but Chinese crap is in everything including high end american tech and automobiles.

I do own a small table top cnc machine from china. Its 1/3 the cost. I produce american goods and do repair work with it. I may not of been able to even afford a totally american version and never could have started the business. I was planning on buying an american version when it breaks but it hasn't malfunctioned enough for me to do so.

Tariffs don't mean jobs coming back. Or larger manufacturing base. They will be efficiency measures and since trump has attacked the allies we have in a trade war and pulled out of trade agreements that would have helped the situation to strengthen our allies like Australia it's unlikely to be successful.

Also it requires Congress to back the president and create the actual legislation and mo etary policy.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU2018

Where do you think Amazon gets their goods? The products they make come from china. The others they distribute do as well.

If cnc machines cost twice the price from Germany or the us guess who pays that? You do. If the worker needs more money because of inflation guess who pays that?

The trade war argument is real it just is being improperly handled by a man who really was born with a silver spoon and didn't do well in business or economics school. His businesses are mired by decades of controversy and mismanagement when he was more hands on.

I don't care where Amazon gets their goods. My point is that when we're waiting on a shipment from China, we can turn to Amazon and get what we're looking for, albeit a lesser amount, within 3 days.

I would rather pay more for better quality and for things made right here in the country I'm a citizen of.

If you think Trump didn't do well in in business or economics school then you're reading too much into rag blogs. They guy was literally the bar for decades. Movie scripts and singers mentioned him for decades when talking about successful, rich people. Even obama set him as the example to follow if you want to be successful and rich. None of that changed until he put an R beside his name. So shove that bull# in someone else's face that is too stupid to look at Trump before 2012.

Outside of Hollywood in the real business world trump is a typical mob style developer. He is not accredited to innovation or even massive success.

His succes is based on propaganda from TV shows and celebrity appeal. The fact is until he handed over his business to be run by another company he did not make good investments. He was able to save the company by moving to pr and branding and letting business people run his company operation.

That is a well document fact and the real reason he sealed his school records and tax returns.

The man is a bragger. He isn't concealing his taxes to flaunt his wealth or his grades to show super student.

a reply to: luthier

As an American craftsman and businessman, I prefer to buy American "union made" for everything but the tools and machines I need aren't available "made in USA" anymore. trumps tariffs could put me out of business if I can't locate other sources.

a reply to: olaru12

Yeah. I live in a farm state and buy stupid expensive groceries by local farmers I know directly from farmers markets because I understand how inflation is being concealed. American made without corporate subsidized pesticide and seed controlled is expensive.

I just don't agree with the government forcing this stuff that will hurt the working poor very badly. Especially with the other economic bubble information and debt being all time high for business, personal, and national.

Tariffs are a temporary battle that neither wants but can be necessary sometimes. China low balls on everything because of their cheap labor. Our company is cutting back buying from them every year it just makes sense for quality and safety.

originally posted by: mikell
Tariffs are a temporary battle that neither wants but can be necessary sometimes. China low balls on everything because of their cheap labor. Our company is cutting back buying from them every year it just makes sense for quality and safety.

A company choosing to cut back is a market self control.

Like stopping to watch cable news rather than making a law to ban it.

A trade war can be used for leverage in certain situation but usually they require a direct emergency to chance. They also require support in Congress and our allies because they are so complicated and difficult to win.

Trump has instead attacked our allies and does not have Congress support enough for them to debate tariffs the appropriate way.

a reply to: LSU2018

In regards to that, note in my other post I also stated;

"Of (if) it's a different brand only found elsewhere that's a different matter and personal preference."

a reply to: luthier

Construction wages are low. 

They are not. In fact they are growing faster than most other industries

This is how dishonest you are. I did not say they were low. I said they were "artificially low" because of an excess of cheap, unregulated labour. If the government offered guaranteed loans for luxury cars at 0% for everyone, demand for BMW's would be artificially high, regardless of an increase or decrease in demand. If oil prices are increasing at 15% a month and the government dumps enough POL from the strategic reserves to slow the growth to 12%, the price of oil is still rising but remains "artificially low." Wages (ie the price for your labour) are lower than otherwise because we have artificially increased the supply of labour.

If your prices for labour were high enough, more people would see and avoid the scam of mass-enrollment in higher education. By devaluing labour, you contribute to the fallacy.

It's in the top 5 highest producers in the us.

Yes, it and it continues to fall behind.



Again, because something can be in decline and yet still be "strong" at #5...

What you will see is that even with growth in manufacturing profit, it does not equate to bodies punching clocks.

And I highlighted several concerns which had nothing to do with jobs in the sector, but you have to ignore them and keep repeating yourself. Jobs or job growth in the sector is only one facet of manufacturing. And the last I checked 5 jobs was indeed fewer than 20, but still better than 3...

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

Construction wages are low. 

They are not. In fact they are growing faster than most other industries

This is how dishonest you are. I did not say they were low. I said they were "artificially low" because of an excess of cheap, unregulated labour. If the government offered guaranteed loans for luxury cars at 0% for everyone, demand for BMW's would be artificially high, regardless of an increase or decrease in demand. If oil prices are increasing at 15% a month and the government dumps enough POL from the strategic reserves to slow the growth to 12%, the price of oil is still rising but remains "artificially low." Wages (ie the price for your labour) are lower than otherwise because we have artificially increased the supply of labour.

If your prices for labour were high enough, more people would see and avoid the scam of mass-enrollment in higher education. By devaluing labour, you contribute to the fallacy.

It's in the top 5 highest producers in the us.

Yes, it and it continues to fall behind.

Again, because something can be in decline and yet still be "strong" at #5...

What you will see is that even with growth in manufacturing profit, it does not equate to bodies punching clocks.

And I highlighted several concerns which had nothing to do with jobs in the sector, but you have to ignore them and keep repeating yourself. Jobs or job growth in the sector is only one facet of manufacturing. And the last I checked 5 jobs was indeed fewer than 20, but still better than 3...

Ok construction wages are not kept artificially low either. They are higher by far then when I started in the 90's.

It is in no way a healthy economy to be manufacturing heavy. Your entire premise is false. And ps notice your arbitrary meaningless graph level out. [

Is this the article you used? Looks like they toally disagree


www.stlouisfed.org...

Manufacturing's share of real GDP has been fairly constant since the 1940s, ranging from 11.3 percent to 13.6 percent. It sat at 11.7 percent in 2015.

So labour is now divorced from supply and demand? The pool of unregulated labour has no affect on wages... That's amazing. Learned that in a 101 course, did you?

originally posted by: RadioRobert
So labohr is now divorced from supply and demand? The pool of unregulated labour has no affect on wages... That's amazing. Learned that in a 101 course, did you?

Nope labor is part of supply and demand you just have the way it happened backwards.

a reply to: luthier

For someone who talks down to everyone in every post. You're struggling with some pretty basic concepts...

a reply to: RadioRobert

Really like what the booming cities in the south couldn't get enough labor and the illegals flooded in to fill the gap?

Congress has been shifting trade regulation powers to the executive branch for decades.

So that is nothing new, or solely on President Trump. Fact is we need business minded leadership.

Because faux wannabe leaders aren't doing America any favors with freebies, (which aren't because taxpayers money is paying for it) nor have they helped American economy by allowing other Countries to tarrif the hell out of our exports.

Those who question tarrifs are possibly ignorant of the purpose, so I'll post it for clarity.

A tariff is a tax on imports or exports between sovereign states. It is a form of regulation of foreign trade and a policy that taxes foreign products to encourage or safeguard domestic industry. Traditionally, states have used them as a source of income.

a reply to: ADVISOR

Traditionally trade wars are seldom won by any party.

This trade war is very unstable seeing as the president isn't a very good business person (he is a pr guy not an operator) and has attacked the allies we need to have a chance of winning one.

Perhaps those of you advocating for the presidents policy don't really understand the history of trade stand offs....

It is a sign of wealth to be importing goods from lesser wealthy nations. We let the balance go to far and can start make small incremental corrections. (Doesnt sound cool at rallies but he is a pr only type guy)

The literal history of trade wars is far from rosy and seldom has any winners. They bleed the consumer until one outlasts the other and then the market reset is never as sold.

Very similar to the tax cuts that did not stimulate the economy enough supplant run away spending to the tune of 1 trillion in debt per year under trump.

How about we clean our self inflicted wounds first.

Does it really make sense to attack the other nations when we borrow so much money to pay our yearly budget. They just change rates or manipulate currency to make us owe more in interest.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: RadioRobert

Really like what the booming cities in the south couldn't get enough labor and the illegals flooded in to fill the gap?

Businesses are buying labour. There is a lot of labour out there without importing it. If they could not get enough labour, they aren't willing to pay enough for it.

There are five appliance stores selling TV's with full shelves, and I offer each $50 for one. None of the sellers are interested. Then the problem is not that there is a shortage of televisions in my region.
If my answer is to turn to trying to buy a fenced set for $40 from a guy who "found it after it fell off a truck", it doesn't mean there was a shortage of televisions. If a market of backalley trade opens up in stolen goods, the thieves are not "fulfilling a shortage". The people that suffer are the ones selling their TV's legitimately, who must now sell their TV's at a lower price to compete with the artificially increased supply. The unregulated, cheap stolen telesvisions have artificially depressed the value of televisions. There is no "shortage."

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: RadioRobert

Really like what the booming cities in the south couldn't get enough labor and the illegals flooded in to fill the gap?

Businesses are buying labour. There is a lot of labour out there without importing it. If they could not get enough labour, they aren't willing to pay enough for it.

There are five appliance stores selling TV's with full shelves, and I offer each $50 for one. None of the sellers are interested. Then the problem is not that there is a shortage of televisions in my region.
If my answer is to turn to trying to buy a fenced set for $40 from a guy who "found it after it fell off a truck", it doesn't mean there was a shortage of televisions. If a market of backalley trade opens up in stolen goods, the thieves are not "fulfilling a shortage". The people that suffer are the ones selling their TV's legitimately, who must now sell their TV's at a lower price to compete with the artificially increased supply. The unregulated, cheap stolen telesvisions have artificially depressed the value of televisions. There is no "shortage."

You babble on about what you perceive but the fact is the trades have a massive shortage and are willing to pay a lot. I made 75 per box to install cabinets in Texas. I could make 2k a week at points if I worked over 40 hours.

However my experience is irrelevant. The truth is the trades are hurting badly and it ain't because of immigrants. It's because society told everyone to go to college. It started far before the immigration crisis we have now.




It's also false natives and immigrants compete for the same jobs in a wide enough range to make large negative impacts on the economy.

a reply to: luthier

Yes, my "perception" is that economic supply and demand laws hold for labour, and that inventing things like a "labour shortage" when there isn't one to promote a narrative is obtuse at best, deliberately deceptive at worst.

Can you show unemployment rates of 2% or lower in any of the states you claim there was a shortage of labour in over any relevant period of time? What existed wasn't a labour shortage, but an unwillingness to spend market rates for labour. The fact businesses are always willing to exploit illegal labour at below market wages does not mean there was a shortage of labour.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

Yes, my "perception" is that economic supply and demand laws hold for labour, and that inventing things like a "labour shortage" when there isn't one to promote a narrative is obtuse at best, deliberately deceptive at worst.

Can you show unemployment rates of 2% or lower in any of the states you claim there was a shortage of labour in over any relevant period of time? What existed wasn't a labour shortage, but an unwillingness to spend market rates for labour. The fact businesses are always willing to exploit illegal labour at below market wages does not mean there was a shortage of labour.

Lol teach them to code man. Anyone can do it.

Sorry bro some people are not cut to be carpenters.

a reply to: midnightstar

Great Idea . Oh by the Way , you Know China is a Communist Country , Right ? Seems some people on ATS have Forgotten that . Communism Wants to ALWAYS DESTROY Personal Freedom , Duh ?.........