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Rockets do not work in the vacuum of space. You will believe anything "expert" scientists say.

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posted on Jun, 23 2019 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

Do you even understand what you are writing? It doesn't seem to be the case.

Gravity is an external force. Even using the word force is not entirely accurate when considering relativity. So there is a force being applied to the ball, and when you let go of the ball it reacts to that external force and leaves your hand. If you consider the Newtonian view of gravity, there actually is an opposite force applied to Earth itself by the ball, not your hand. You can't compare this to pressure.

Pressure is not an external force. When you release contained pressure to the vacuum there is no external force pulling the pressurized substance out like gravity pulls the ball out of your hand. The pressure force is internal, its between the molecules of the pressurized substance. So when pressure is released it is actually pushing itself away from (off of) the rocket. Using the ball analogy, it would be as if the ball used your hand to push itself away, like a compressed spring expanding and jumping out of your hand. It is that pushing away that causes the equal and opposite force.

You are still suck thinking some external force causes high pressure to escape to low pressure areas. That is all wrong. It's all an internal force between the high pressure molecules that is pushing itself into low pressure areas. That is actually what a pressure gradient force is, its a push not a pull.
edit on 23-6-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

His whole idea of how rockets work basically sucks.



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

Pressure gradient force is a force. This is the external or external that gives the exhaust momentum

en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: More1ThanAny1

Pressure gradient force is a force. This is the external or external that gives the exhaust momentum

en.m.wikipedia.org...


What drives the force. What causes pressure differences in earth’s atmosphere. Why is there wind in Earth’s atmosphere.

Hello, Mcfly. Remember this post
www.abovetopsecret.com...



www.thoughtco.com...

The force actually responsible for causing the movement of air though is the pressure gradient force. Differences in air pressure and the pressure gradient force are caused by the unequal heating of the Earth’s surface when incoming solar radiation concentrates at the equator.


What do you not understand the burning of rocket fuel releases hot gasses with kinetic energy.



posted on Jun, 24 2019 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

So in your theory, what fundamental force is responsible for the pressure-gradient force?

What fundamental interaction causes pressurized exhaust gases to flow into the vacuum?



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

Just randomness of gas molecules bouncing around. Once a molecules heads towards low pressure, the chances of that molecules bouncing of anything else is low so it keeps moving toward low pressure



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: More1ThanAny1

Just randomness of gas molecules bouncing around. Once a molecules heads towards low pressure, the chances of that molecules bouncing of anything else is low so it keeps moving toward low pressure


If that is true, then how can a vacuum cleaner push air away from the low pressure area of its impeller to maintain a constant inflow of air into the vacuum.
edit on 26-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added cleaner to verify.



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

Sorry. You failed to answer correctly. I was expecting you to answer with at least 1 of the 4 fundamental forces. The answer in this case is electromagnetism.

As you say, the gas molecules are "bouncing around". This bounce is electromagnetic repulsion - like two magnets repelling. The kinetic energy (movement) and magnetic repulsion (bounce) between the molecules causes all the molecules to move away from each other (expand) over time and create pressure. The molecules expand towards the path of least resistance / the path of least repulsion which is lower pressure areas. That is because these lower pressure areas have less things to repel it, and or less kinetic energy behind the repulsion. This means molecules are electromagnetically repelled into lower pressure areas. They are pushed into lower pressure areas.

Since time is involved, when the molecules move into lower pressure areas, the pressure gradually decreases with distance and time which we call a "gradient". That is why its called a pressure-gradient. So, as you should now understand, the driving force of a pressure-gradient is electromagnetism.

So what happens just before a pressure-gradient is formed? The molecules collide and repel off of other molecules, including those that make up the rocket (if we are talking about a pressure rocket). This electromagnetic repulsion is what truly pushed the rocket forward. No external atmosphere required.

In fact, when pressurized molecules repelling themselves out of a rocket collide with molecules of air in the atmosphere, kinetic energy is transferred to the air molecules, and not to the rocket. Those molecules would then deflect off and likely never come into contact with the rocket again. Maybe some bounce right back at the rocket, but they would just collide with more repelling molecules coming out of the rocket, again, losing kinetic energy. In your theory, there is no electromagnetic force applied to the rocket after the initial repulsion that causes the molecules to escape. So your theory doesn't work.

Can you explain how electromagnetic force is applied to the rocket in your theory?



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

What are you talking about? You’re the one who can’t prove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: More1ThanAny1

What are you talking about? You’re the one who can’t prove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force


What do you not get about the burning of fuel gives the exhaust gasses kinetic energy.
Not pressure gradient force.

And you did not answer to what fundamental forces drive pressure changes that result in pressure gradient force.

You are utterly ridiculous and intellectually dishonest.

Burning rocket fuel is a controlled explosion. An explosion in space with no confinement would expand is a sphere. The gas molecules with kinetic energy are going to zoom through the “vacuum” of space in a growing sphere until acted upon by another force. The confining space of the rocket combustion chamber means most of the gas molecules imparted with kinetic energy from the rocket fuel reaction are going to have to collide with the walls of the combustion chamber to be directed out the rocket nozzle.

Example. You are in a theoretical room in space, open to space by a three inch hole in the wall. The pressure is equalized with the vacuum of space. Are you saying no matter which wall you fire a bullet at, the three inch hole is going to suck out the bullet before it will collide with a wall. No. Because the vacuum of space does not suck. It will be the same if you “fired” a molecule of gas at a wall of the theoretical room. If you “fired” a molecule of gas at the wall opposite the wall with the hole to space, the “fired” molecule with still travel towards the opposite wall. The “pressurized” molecule will not travel towards the hole to space until a wall collision redirects in that direction.

In fact, there is no pressure until the gas molecule collides with the wall. Yes, you can have gas molecules in motion with a direction of travel with them not exerting pressure. There is no pressure until the gas molecules exert of force on another surface.



pressure
the exertion of force upon a surface by an object, fluid, etc., in contact with it:
the pressure of earth against a wall.
www.dictionary.com...


If there is pressure in a rocket combustion chamber, then by definition the exhaust gasses imparted with kinetic energy from the burning of rocket fuel are colliding with the wall of the combustion chamber.
edit on 26-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Fixed some.

edit on 26-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jun, 26 2019 @ 08:36 PM
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originally posted by: NicSign
What are you talking about?


I am talking about the fundamental force that is responsible for the pressure inside a rocket. Something you clearly don't understand.


originally posted by: NicSign
You’re the one who can’t prove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force


Why would I need to prove that? That is not how rockets work...

Thrust from rockets comes from the pressure exerted on the wall of the combustion chamber, as I have said from the beginning. When there is more pressure exerted on one side of the chamber compared to the other side (because the pressure is escaping on that side) there is thrust towards the side with more pressure. That happens to be opposite direction of the gas movement.

Here is an explanation, and includes how to calculate the thrust:
www.braeunig.us...


Thrust is the force that propels a rocket or spacecraft and is measured in pounds, kilograms or Newtons. Physically speaking, it is the result of pressure which is exerted on the wall of the combustion chamber.

Figure 1.1 shows a combustion chamber with an opening, the nozzle, through which gas can escape. The pressure distribution within the chamber is asymmetric; that is, inside the chamber the pressure varies little, but near the nozzle it decreases somewhat. The force due to gas pressure on the bottom of the chamber is not compensated for from the outside. The resultant force F due to the internal and external pressure difference, the thrust, is opposite to the direction of the gas jet. It pushes the chamber upwards.


You're the one who can't prove rockets need an atmosphere for thrust. Sorry, but rockets can create pressure in their combustion chambers without an atmosphere. That means thrust in a vacuum is possible.
edit on 26-6-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 03:57 AM
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35 pages of trying to reason with a Flat Earther. This thread could go on forever and he/she/it will not change their belief because that is what it is. You can't use logic or reason to argue with a religious nut-job either.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: More1ThanAny1

I’ve already demonstrated that rockets need atmosphere to push off of several times already using multiple demonstrations. Where is your demonstration of an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force?



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: More1ThanAny1

I’ve already demonstrated that rockets need atmosphere to push off of several times already using multiple demonstrations. Where is your demonstration of an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force?


No. Your created a false argument using pseudoscience and butchering the definition of gradient pressure force with no understanding of the elemental forces that drives it. Also with no understanding and ignoring that thrust for rockets comes from the burning of rocket fuel that transforms stored chemical energy into kinetic energy that is imparted on resultant exhaust gasses.

As your blatant falsehoods disproven by the the application of rockets to place items visible with the naked eye in orbit like the international space station and the Hubble space station. With the application of rockets also verified by the placement of satellites in orbit that provide services like satellite weather, satellite Tv, satellite internet, satellite radio. Satellite broadcasts that can be verified as coming from space.

You are a right out liar and full of crap.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Kinetic energy simply increases temperature which increase pressure. This pressure gradient causes gas to move.

Where is your demonstration of a rocket being able to work in space



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: neutronflux

Kinetic energy simply increases temperature which increase pressure. This pressure gradient causes gas to move.

Where is your demonstration of a rocket being able to work in space


There reason there is pressure is because gas molecules have kinetic energy.

Gas particles move regardless if there is a gradient pressure force.



Gas particles are in a constant state of random motion and move in straight lines until they collide with another body.
courses.lumenlearning.com...




posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

So, again

No. Your created a false argument using pseudoscience and butchering the definition of gradient pressure force with no understanding of the elemental forces that drives it. Also with no understanding and ignoring that thrust for rockets comes from the burning of rocket fuel that transforms stored chemical energy into kinetic energy that is imparted on resultant exhaust gasses.

As your blatant falsehoods disproven by the the application of rockets to place items visible with the naked eye in orbit like the international space station and the Hubble space station. With the application of rockets also verified by the placement of satellites in orbit that provide services like satellite weather, satellite Tv, satellite internet, satellite radio. Satellite broadcasts that can be verified as coming from space.

You are a right out liar and full of crap.



posted on Jun, 27 2019 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

So if gas molecules move in a straight line, how do all the gas particles given random directions of travel from the reaction of rocket fuel make their way out the rocket nozzle.

There is no fundamental force of suck is there? How does all the gas molecules from the combustion of rocket fuel traveling in random directions make their way out the rocket engine nozzle. The is no fundamental suck force to draw them out. Gas molecules travel in a straight line until they collide with another body.



posted on Jun, 28 2019 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: NicSign

You


Where is your demonstration of a rocket being able to work in space


Again


Below is the outline of the launch, placement, data provided by the Sentinel-1A. If it’s not a satellite, what is broadcasting from Sentinel-1A’s position?




Orbit
Sentinel-1 will be in a near-polar, sun-synchronous orbit with a 12 day repeat cycle and 175 orbits per cycle for a single satellite. Both Sentinel-1A and Senitnel-1B share the same orbit plane with a 180° orbital phasing difference. With both satellites operating, the repeat cycle is 6 days.
sentinel.esa.int...


Launch of the rocket that placed Sentinel 1A.


Onboard camera view: launch and separation of Sentinel-1A


m.youtube.com...



Placed this item into space:


Sentinel-1A

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Sentinel-1A is a European radar imaging satellite launched in 2014. It is the first Sentinel-1 satellite launched as part of the European Union's Copernicus programme. The satellite carries a C-band Synthetic Aperture Radar which will provide images in all light and weather conditions. It will track many aspects of our environment, from detecting and tracking oil spills and mapping sea ice to monitoring movement in land surfaces and mapping changes in the way land is used.

Launch

Sentinel-1A was launched on 3 April 2014 by a Soyuz rocket at 21:02:31 GMT (23:02:31 CEST). The first stage separated 118 seconds later, followed by the fairing (209 s), second stage (287 s) and the upper assembly (526 s).[6] After a 617-second burn, the Fregat upper stage delivered Sentinel into a Sun-synchronous orbit at 693 km altitude. The satellite separated from the upper stage 23 min 29 s after liftoff.



Which broadcasts from space radar images



Sentinel-1A Satellite delivers first Radar Images of Earth

spaceflight101.com...

The newly launched Sentinel-1A satellite has returned the first images acquired with its high-fidelity radar system. Sentinel-1A is making good progress in its commissioning phase that will prepare the satellite for regular acquisition of high-resolution and calibrated radar images for release through the European Commission’s Copernicus program.

Following a close call in the first night of the mission that featured an unprecedented Debris Avoidance Maneuver (a story told here by the mission team), Sentinel-1A continued its early operations with flying colors – being awarded a clean bill of health and beginning to collect radar images of chosen targets on Earth.


This is some of the access offered by the European Space Agency from the Sentinel Program


sentinel.esa.int...

Sentinel data products are made available systematically and free of charge to all data users including the general public, scientific and commercial users. The data will be delivered within an hour of reception for Near Real-Time (NRT) emergency response, within three hours for NRT priority areas and within 24 hours for systematically archived data.

All data products are distributed in the Sentinel Standard Archive Format for Europe (SAFE) format.

Each mode can potentially produce products at SAR Level-0, Level-1 SLC, Level-1 GRD, and Level-2 OCN.

Data products are available in single polarisation (VV or HH) for Wave mode and dual polarisation (VV+VH or HH+HV) or single polarisation (HH or VV) for SM, IW and EW modes.


How to get Sentinel data



Access to Sentinel data via download

sentinel.esa.int...

The free, full and open data policy adopted for the Copernicus programme foresees access available to all users for the Sentinel data products, via a simple self-registration. News and further information about the service is available here.

edit on 28-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jun, 28 2019 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

Not sure why I gave you the benefit of doubt, and thought you were genuinely curious about rockets. Now I know you are not being serious here.

We've explained multiple times that a pressure gradient is not what moves the gas. The gas is at pressure and already moving. A pressure gradient is only the result of gas moving into low pressure areas, and is not the cause of the movement.

We can also easily debunk your theory that rockets only work in an atmosphere by shooting two bullets of the same shape and size, but made of two materials of different mass. If your theory was correct, the similar surface area of the two bullets would mean both bullets would provide the same amount of recoil on the device that is shooting the bullets because they would push the same amount of air. However, we all know that the recoil on a heavier bullet would be different than the recoil on a lighter bullet if they both had the same exit velocity.

Since we have proof of rockets in space, the burden of proof is on you. Prove that rockets don't work in space. So far I haven't seen any rockets in your demonstrations. I haven't seen any mathematical proofs either. I won't hold my breath for it. In fact I may just end my discussion here since I have grown tired of replying to your copy and pasted response about pressure gradients.



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