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Rockets do not work in the vacuum of space. You will believe anything "expert" scientists say.

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posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: captainpudding

I’ve already presented many demonstrations. No in here has sufficiently proven an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force


By the way. What is the driving force for pressure gradient force. What is the root cause of pressure gradient force.




posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: captainpudding

I’ve already presented many demonstrations. No in here has sufficiently proven an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force


The first part of your post is false. The second part is very true: you are the only person trying to prove rockets move by some magic power you've invented called pressure gradient force, and you haven't proven it one bit.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

I didn’t invent it. Google it there are many resources that explain what pressure gradient force is



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

I didn’t invent it. Google it there are many resources that explain what pressure gradient force is


Care to explain what drives pressure gradient force. Why there is wind on earth for example. What exactly cause changes in pressure.



posted on Jun, 21 2019 @ 04:53 PM
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Again......


originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: neutronflux

That kinetic energy is provided by pressure gradient force, not the rocket


That is dead wrong. The chemical reaction between the fuel and oxidizer creates its own kinetic energy.

So burning fuel, raising the temperature of the gasses doesn’t give kinetic energy?



coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu...



Temperature is a measure of the average heat or thermal energy of the particles in a substance.

edit on 21-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

So if a rocket made indestructible material went to the sun where the atmospheric pressure is 5000psi. The rocket can only produce 5000psi of pressure it’s chamber by burning fuel. Is the rocket going to move?



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:36 AM
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a reply to: NicSign

I answered this once before. Is that false.

Again......


originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: neutronflux

That kinetic energy is provided by pressure gradient force, not the rocket


That is dead wrong. The chemical reaction between the fuel and oxidizer creates its own kinetic energy.

So burning fuel, raising the temperature of the gasses doesn’t give kinetic energy?



coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu...



Temperature is a measure of the average heat or thermal energy of the particles in a substance.
[



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: NicSign

Besides we know rockers work in space because of:
Satellite TV
Satellite internet
GPS Satellites
Satellite phones
Satellite weather tracking and surveys
Satellite mapping of earth by radar, thermal imaging, UV light.....
Mirrors left on moon used to measure distance
Hubble space telescopes
Various countries space missions to map the moon
The international space station
Skylab space station
The Mir space station
You can actually see satellites and the international space station from earth
Missions to map and explore Mars
Missions to Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto, asteroids, comets...........



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: NicSign

Think about this. As you like to point out, the nozzle and chamber with no reaction are open to outside pressure. The combustion chamber is already at 5000 psi for your scenario before ignition. So, if the reaction of the oxidizer and fuel can take place, its going to convert the stored energy to kinetic energy. So any rise in temperature will create gas molecules with kinetic energy. The thrust may not be enough to overcome the forces of the sun, but it will create thrust.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

You said it would move in the sun but that is clearly wrong. The rocket chamber and atmosphere are at equal pressures so there is no movement. So again I ask you, will the rocket move in the sun”s atmosphere and explain why. A demonstration would be nice



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: NicSign

Think about this. As you like to point out, the nozzle and chamber with no reaction are open to outside pressure. The combustion chamber is already at 5000 psi for your scenario before ignition. So, if the reaction of the oxidizer and fuel can take place, its going to convert the stored energy to kinetic energy. So any rise in temperature will create gas molecules with kinetic energy. The thrust may not be enough to overcome the forces of the sun, but it will create thrust.


No I said the combustion of fuel only creates 5000psi pressure. The rocket chamber cannot exceed 5000psi.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign
a reply to: neutronflux

You said it would move in the sun but that is clearly wrong. The rocket chamber and atmosphere are at equal pressures so there is no movement. So again I ask you, will the rocket move in the sun”s atmosphere and explain why. A demonstration would be nice


You premises is wrong. The pressure is going to be equal with no reaction. You create a reaction the results in the release of expanding gasses and rising temperatures which increases the kinetic energy of the gasses inside the rocket, the gasses are going to expand, the gas molecules are going to collide with the rocket walls. They are going to flow out the nozzle and create thrust.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 09:12 AM
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originally posted by: NicSign

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: NicSign

Think about this. As you like to point out, the nozzle and chamber with no reaction are open to outside pressure. The combustion chamber is already at 5000 psi for your scenario before ignition. So, if the reaction of the oxidizer and fuel can take place, its going to convert the stored energy to kinetic energy. So any rise in temperature will create gas molecules with kinetic energy. The thrust may not be enough to overcome the forces of the sun, but it will create thrust.


No I said the combustion of fuel only creates 5000psi pressure. The rocket chamber cannot exceed 5000psi.


And if you use a “fuel” that releases stored chemical energy into kinetic energy such as a rise in temperature and expanding gasses, the pressure of the chamber will increase to create thrust.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

The release of energy from the combustion creates 5000psi, is the rocket going to move?



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

What do you not get this. The combustion chamber is open to the outside 5000 psi. The combustion chamber does not have to do any “work” to achieve 5000 PSI. It will equalize with the outside pressure with no rocket fuel reaction. As long as the rocket fuel can react with an oxidizer, the reaction it going to raise the combustion chamber pressure above outlet pressure as long as the restriction of the outlet nozzle is correctly designed for the application.

The rocket fuel reaction releases stored chemical energy, and results in expanding gasses high in temperature and kinetic energy. The rocket fuel reaction is what cause the expanding gasses to have kinetic energy, not pressure gradient force.



Rocket propellant

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Rocket propellant is either a high oxygen-containing fuel or a mixture of fuel plus oxidant, whose combustion takes place, in a definite and controlled manner with the evolution of a huge volume of gas. In the rocket engine, the propellant is burnt in the combustion chamber and the hot jet of gases (usually at a temperature of 3,000°C and a pressure of 300 kg/cm^2 ) escapes through the nozzle at very high velocity. Rockets create thrust by expelling mass backward in a high-speed jet (see Newton's Third Law). Chemical rockets, the subject of this article, create thrust by reacting propellants within a combustion chamber into a very hot gas at high pressure, which is then expanded and accelerated by passage through a nozzle at the rear of the rocket. The amount of the resulting forward force, known as thrust, that is produced is the mass flow rate of the propellants multiplied by their exhaust velocity (relative to the rocket), as specified by Newton's third law of motion.




If the reaction between the fuel and oxidizer can take place, it going to create pressure because it results in gasses with kinetic energy.

If the reaction continues in a bottled up system, or happens is an area not designed for the reaction, the expanding gasses will build until something gives.






edit on 22-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: NicSign

This is what you don’t understand about pressure and pressure gradient force. Temperature is the measurement of kinetic energy.



TEMPERATURE IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS

www.wired.com...

Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the particles in an object.


Without an energy source, there is no pressure gradient force.



Winds and the Pressure Gradient Force

www.thoughtco.com...

The Pressure Gradient Force and Other Effects on Wind
Within the atmosphere, there are several forces that impact the speed and direction of winds. The most important though is the Earth’s gravitational force. As gravity compresses the Earth’s atmosphere, it creates air pressure- the driving force of wind. Without gravity, there would be no atmosphere or air pressure and thus, no wind.

The force actually responsible for causing the movement of air though is the pressure gradient force. Differences in air pressure and the pressure gradient force are caused by the unequal heating of the Earth’s surface when incoming solar radiation concentrates at the equator. Because of the energy surplus at low latitudes for example, the air there is warmer than that at the poles. Warm air is less dense and has a lower barometric pressure than the cold air at high latitudes. These differences in barometric pressure are what create the pressure gradient force and wind as air constantly moves between areas of high and low pressure.


If you missed it, “Differences in air pressure and the pressure gradient force are caused by the unequal heating of the Earth’s surface”

Like gravity and heating drives winds, the releasing of stored chemical energy of a fuel to cause the expansion of hot gasses with resultant gas molecules with kinetic energy drives the thrust of a rocket. In a crude analogy, rockets make their own wind with expanding gasses from burning fuel.
edit on 22-6-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:06 PM
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I'm sorry, but this thread really needs to DIE!

It's gone beyond pointless.

Oh well.



posted on Jun, 22 2019 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I'm sorry, but this thread really needs to DIE!

It's gone beyond pointless.

Oh well.


I have learned much about rockets......



posted on Jun, 23 2019 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Pressure is simply potential energy. Like climbing a mountain gives gravitational potential energy. The combustion reaction provide the energy to create pressure. The pressure is then released. Just like when you release a ball from the mountain top, no opposite reaction in your hand. When pressure releases to vacuum, no force in the rocket



posted on Jun, 23 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: NicSign

What the F drives pressure.

What do you not get about temperature is the average kinetic energy of a substance. Rocket fuel burns. Creates lots of heat. The heat is indicative of the kinetic energy the burning of the fuel gave to the the exhaust gasses. The heat results in giving the exhaust gasses kinetic energy that gives the gases molecules energy to move and create pressure.



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