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# Rockets do not work in the vacuum of space. You will believe anything "expert" scientists say.

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posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:12 AM

PV =nRT

What happens when you make a hole in the sphere? The volume of the container is now increased. Therefore pressure must decrease. If pressure decreases rapidly into space because of vacuum, there is no pressure pushing on the wall of the sphere

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:13 AM

I’m saying newton was
Wrong. I’m saying that it is misapplied. Where is your experiment showing an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force?

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:40 AM

originally posted by: NicSign

PV =nRT

What happens when you make a hole in the sphere? The volume of the container is now increased. Therefore pressure must decrease. If pressure decreases rapidly into space because of vacuum, there is no pressure pushing on the wall of the sphere

Good thing a rocket engine is designed for a specific nozzle opening and arrangement.

Think about it this way. The gas exiting from the rocket is basically a controlled explosion. If the reacting gassed were not in a nozzle, the exit gasses would want to expand in all directions. Is that false. In a rocket, the gas release is forced out in one direction. Is that false. So the gas is required to push against the combustion chamber. Is that false. The expanding gasses by contact and collisions is forced out the nozzle opening. Is that false. So by Newton’s third law, the expanding gasses forced out of the nozzle by contact will result in thrust for the rocket. Is this false. Using Newton’s third law to move the rocket has nothing to to with the atmosphere. Is that false.

High school physics 6, NicSign big fat zero

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 07:40 AM

So you are saying that a balloon car wouldn’t work in space because there is no special nozzle?

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 07:57 AM

originally posted by: NicSign

So you are saying that a balloon car wouldn’t work in space because there is no special nozzle?

What does your response have to do with

Think about it this way. The gas exiting from the rocket is basically a controlled explosion. If the reacting gasses were not in a nozzle, the exit gasses would want to expand in all directions. Is that false. In a rocket, the gas release is forced out in one direction. Is that false. So the gas is required to push against the combustion chamber. Is that false. The expanding gasses by contact and collisions is forced out the nozzle opening. Is that false. So by Newton’s third law, the expanding gasses forced out of the nozzle by contact will result in thrust for the rocket. Is this false. Using Newton’s third law to move the rocket has nothing to to with the atmosphere. Is that false.

Again, Newton’s third law can be expressed without terms of pressure gradient force.

Unless you want to mathematically show how the only deciding factor for Newton’s third law is “ pressure gradient force.“

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 10:08 AM

When you try to apply Newton’s third law to rockets the same way as one would apply it to someone pushing a ball, that is incorrect.

Pressure gradient force, like gravity, is potential energy. When you drop a ball from your hand, the action/reaction pair is not your hand and the ball. When gas moves out of the rocket, the action/reaction pair is not the rocket and gas.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 11:23 AM

originally posted by: NicSign

When you try to apply Newton’s third law to rockets the same way as one would apply it to someone pushing a ball, that is incorrect.

Pressure gradient force, like gravity, is potential energy. When you drop a ball from your hand, the action/reaction pair is not your hand and the ball. When gas moves out of the rocket, the action/reaction pair is not the rocket and gas.

You have been repeatedly proven wrong over and over. What does pressure gradient force have to do with how a rocket works in a vacuum?

Again.
Think about it this way. The gas exiting from the rocket is basically a controlled explosion. If the reacting gasses were not in a nozzle, the exit gasses would want to expand in all directions. Is that false. In a rocket, the gas release is forced out in one direction. Is that false. So the gas is required to push against the combustion chamber. Is that false. The expanding gasses by contact and collisions is forced out the nozzle opening. Is that false. So by Newton’s third law, the expanding gasses forced out of the nozzle by contact will result in thrust for the rocket. Is this false. Using Newton’s third law to move the rocket has nothing to to with the atmosphere. Is that false.

Again, Newton’s third law can be expressed without terms of pressure gradient force.

Unless you want to mathematically show how the only deciding factor for Newton’s third law is “ pressure gradient force.“

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 11:45 AM

t’s has been proven between two threads in many ways rockets do produce thrust in a vacuum and are used in a vacuum to deploy payloads that are the backbone of may utilized technologies. GPS and satellite phones just being a few examples. Never mind numerous space missions being tracked and transmitting data.

At this point, your total lack of understanding is well documented, and your ignorance confirmed.

Stating rockets cannot produce thrust in a vacuum is willful ignorance, and a blatant falsehood.

Saying people are lying without providing evidence is slander.

edit on 18-5-2019 by neutronflux because: Added last sentence.

edit on 18-5-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 02:10 PM

My friend,
You are thinking too high level, you need to step down to the atomic level. You are also overlooking what a "decrease in pressure" really means.

Again you are implying that the pressure would decrease from 100% to 0% instantly, and you don't seem to realize the very act of decreasing pressure in this case is what propels the object.

Why do you think the pressurized gas wants to escape out of the hole? There are really only two forces, attraction and repulsion. Do you think the atoms of that gas are attracted to the vacuum of space? Or do you think they are repelled out of the container?

I will tell you, the atoms of the pressurized gas are moving around rapidly and colliding with the container walls applying force to the container. The walls of the container repel / push the atoms away during that collision, until eventually they escape the container through the hole. That means their last interaction with the container is not canceled out. So there is a net force.

Let's shrink the experiment and think of a very very small metal sphere container that contains only 1 gas atom bouncing around inside. Outside is a perfect vacuum. Well that 1 atom will collide with the top of the sphere and apply force, then it will collide with the bottom of the sphere and apply force in the opposite direction cancelling the previous force it applied. Then it will keep bouncing around until it loses all it energy since it's alone. Every collision canceling out every other collision. So the sphere doesn't move anywhere.

Now what if we introduce a small hole and start the experiment over? Well the 1 atom will collide with the top of the sphere and apply upward force, then it will bounce down and out of the hole in the bottom never getting a chance to cancel out it's last collision with the container. So the container would have a net upward force and move up. Now multiply that by trillions and trillions of atoms...
edit on 18-5-2019 by More1ThanAny1 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 06:45 PM

But your explanation doesn’t mimic reality. You still can’t prove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 07:48 PM

originally posted by: NicSign

But your explanation doesn’t mimic reality. You still can’t prove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force

It’s because you don’t understand pressure gradient force, that Newton’s third law is not dependent on pressure gradient force.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 08:03 PM

The atmosphere isnt very massive so the bit you could push against and the speed witj which you do it are both snall. The force would be small. But if you chose to sail to your employment well that would work.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 08:19 PM

You seem to think that the only way to get something to move is to push against something else.

If that were the case then how does that explain when you drop something merely by releasing it and it falls?

What is it pushing against?

A rocket works by reaction. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is no need for it to push against anything.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 08:25 PM

How have I been proven wrong? You can’t prove there is an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force. I have shown that there is none

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 08:27 PM

The gas isn’t pushing the rocket in space either. Just like gravity, pressure gradient force is a potential energy thus it is not the rocket pushing out the gas.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 09:34 PM
For the thousandth time....

Again.
Think about it this way. The gas exiting from the rocket is basically a controlled explosion. If the reacting gasses were not in a nozzle, the exit gasses would want to expand in all directions. Is that false. In a rocket, the gas release is forced out in one direction. Is that false. So the gas is required to push against the combustion chamber. Is that false. The expanding gasses by contact and collisions is forced out the nozzle opening. Is that false. So by Newton’s third law, the expanding gasses forced out of the nozzle by contact will result in thrust for the rocket. Is this false. Using Newton’s third law to move the rocket has nothing to to with the atmosphere. Is that false.

Again, Newton’s third law can be expressed without terms of pressure gradient force.

Unless you want to mathematically show how the only deciding factor for Newton’s third law is “ pressure gradient force.“

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 09:45 PM

originally posted by: NicSign

The gas isn’t pushing the rocket in space either. Just like gravity, pressure gradient force is a potential energy thus it is not the rocket pushing out the gas.

What does that even have to do with....

cosmosmagazine.com...

How rockets and boosters blast into space

These gases are then forced out of the nozzle at the base of the engine, generating thrust. The result is a perfect example of Newton’s Third Law: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. As the exhaust gases are forced down, the engine and the spacecraft to which it is bolted are forced up. The narrower the nozzle, and the more pressure inside the chamber, the greater the thrust.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 09:47 PM

Rocket working in space....

Onboard camera view: launch and separation of Sentinel-1A

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 09:59 PM

originally posted by: NicSign

The gas isn’t pushing the rocket in space either. Just like gravity, pressure gradient force is a potential energy thus it is not the rocket pushing out the gas.

The pressure gradient pushes the combusted fuel out of the rocket engine. The combusted fuel doesn't push against anything in the vacuum, there is nothing there to push against.

Rockets don't work by pushing against something. They work by conservation of momentum - reaction forces.

Everything in the Periodic Table has mass. Even gasses.

If you move a small mass, very fast, it is the same as moving a large mass, more slowly. It's in the equation and you can even put actual numbers on the values. Rockets eject spent fuel very fast.

But if you doubt the physics, you could always look at the evidence of space technologies and companies. They actually work because they actually work.

posted on May, 18 2019 @ 10:03 PM

More proof your claim rockets don’t work in a vacuum is a blatant lie.

Japanese probe fires rockets to steer into orbit at Venus

spaceflightnow.com...

Five years after missing a shot to enter orbit at Venus, Japan’s Akatsuki spacecraft completed a critical rocket burn late Sunday in a bid to salvage the research mission and become the only space probe operating around Earth’s nearest planetary neighbor.

Four maneuvering thrusters were scheduled to ignite at 2351 GMT (6:51 p.m. EST) Sunday for approximately 20 minutes and 30 seconds to slow down the Akatsuki probe enough for Venus’ gravity to capture it into an elongated, high-altitude orbit.

Japan's Akatsuki Probe Sends First Images of Venus

If rockets don’t work in the vacuum of space, how did Japan's Akatsuki Probe get into obit around Venus?
edit on 18-5-2019 by neutronflux because: Fixed wording

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