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AG Barr is a big fat liar

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posted on May, 14 2019 @ 12:38 AM

originally posted by: chr0naut
The presumption of innocence is not the same as actual innocence. It is a legal procedure that guides the court case.

The presumption is inherent, regardless of legal proceeding. An agent of the State may suspect you, but operate on the baseline assumption that you are innocent until otherwise proven guilty.

The Police, to do their job, must suspect those they investigate. The presumption of innocence does not factor into the process at that stage.

It sure does factor in. Suspicion does not negate the presumption of innocence. Suspicion allows the State, to detain while whatever is being investigated to be brought before the courts. All the while, you maintain the status of innocence.

The Police also cannot declare anyone legally guilty, that is the function of the courts where the case gets handed off for adjudication and where the presumption of innocence comes into play.

Agreed and to my point, baseline assumptions are you are innocent.

The state is a different thing to the Judiciary.
The judiciary is the State.

No, it happens because the presumption of innocence does not come into play until charges are laid. It is neither illegal nor wrong.

No it happens because probable cause to detain you has been met. Under your logic, the State would have no need to meet such a standard because they can claim no citizen is innocent and innocence is only achieved through the Judicary.

You also cannot petition bail unless you have been charged but have not yet been convicted or acquitted. The presumption of innocence is a function of jurisprudence. It isn't universal.

Again you made my point. Presumption of innocence is inherent. The police cannot decide to strip that away and detain you for no reason. They have reached probable cause to do so, but your status of innocence remains intact until you are tried by a jury of your peers. Under your logic, a police officer can just randomly detain you and claim "at least until you are in court, where your presumption of innocence begins, you are guilty".

The State, for the most part, doesn't actually deem you innocent or guilty, your peers do.

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