Besides AOC, Who's Supporting Venezuela's Murderous Dictator?

I just got done listening to leftist/economist Jeffrey Sachs saying that 40,000 Venezuelans have died since US sanctions went into effect (of course, it was Obama who put them in....). And it's all trumps fault.

Not price controls, not Brazil's embargo, not Columbia's embargo, not the EU for it's embargo.

And NPR lady reporter was like, "gee, whiz. wow" for the whole tirade. Until she asked how he knew it was 40,000. And then he admitted that the number was given him by professors at a certain Venezuelan university.

...and there may be a rounding error....

a reply to: odzeandennz

Guess how many governments China toppled, or wars or bombs dropped on foreign soil?

You absolutely did not think about that before posting , did ya ?
Dang.....

But people?

They're not doing socialism right in Venezula.

originally posted by: r0xor
Ocasio-Cortez is a liberal villain hate magnet. She's young, hispanic, outspokenly progressive, freshman congresswoman from a blue wave. You love it.

She's a proven idiot too.

Oh and I'm pulling for Maduro btw...

which makes me a proven idiot to most here too...

I'm going back to my cave now.

originally posted by: neo96
But people?

They're not doing socialism right in Venezula.

True! They are doing it... left.

'No True Scotsman' fallacy, right there. Because if they WERE doing it properly, it'd no doubt be a success. As if socialism properly manifested does not in fact require rolling over x number of young people with armored urban assault vehicles.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them. Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them, with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms

Well, if price controls and production quotas aren't good socialism, workers' collectives controlling farms and oil refineries with no prior knowledge of those trades IS par for the course...

originally posted by: Graysen
I just got done listening to leftist/economist Jeffrey Sachs saying that 40,000 Venezuelans have died since US sanctions went into effect (of course, it was Obama who put them in....). And it's all trumps fault.

Yes it is because he did not remove them as soon as he was able and instead put people in place to cause even more harm and suffering to that country. He's focused on removing stupid deals and treaties nobody cares or knows about but why doesn't he remove those dumb sanctions?

Let's remove the sanctions and see how things turn out in the following two years or so. Once the damage is gone, once they can have a functional economy? If they are supposed to fail, let them fail on their own, not push them to failure to later brag about it while also saying the US had nothing to do with it

It's easy, no reason to look for excuses, right?

I just want to see what happens with Venezuela if no sanctions are forced on them at all, in the entire world, so they can do business as any other country. I guess that's the best way to show if they will fail or not

Fair or not?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Big time. Thanks and continue to fight the good fight!

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Nah I disagree these guys are quite transparent and you did not address all of the other news organizations whom they posted on their web page. Possibly you can discredit them to an idiot but not here. Sure they write stuff like that as they are placing their life on the line. So in your world anyone who attempts to write articles about drugs, Cartels and corrupt politicians are phooey. Nah. Seems to me that we are polarized. I am for good and your are the other side. But ya gotta admit I pulled you on board

a reply to: CriticalStinker


Your proof they are not; economically and via MSM and Social media? So post something? You need to stay out of those garbage cans at night as ATS is on the blacklist as the 6th most unreliable web site for news. Thanks. I want ATS to live on and prosper.

a reply to: Waterglass

Sure they write stuff like that as they are placing their life on the line

What? Stepping outside their Washington office HQ and getting hit by a car? They write as if, not what is, and if what you said is true, then where's the problem with other links to other places?

So in your world anyone who attempts to write articles about drugs, Cartels and corrupt politicians are phooey

Where did I say that? I'm questioning the purpose and authenticity of your news sources, no doubt Venezuela has cartels etc., as many South American countries do, what's your point? And almost every politician on the planet is most likely corrupt in one way or another, point?

I am for good and your are the other side.

Yeah, yeah, because I question everything, I must be bad

But ya gotta admit I pulled you on board

Your OP title says:

Besides AOC, Who's Supporting Venezuela's Murderous Dictator?

Then you post some websites on the Venezualan drug trade, aside from my previous criticisms of your sources, where's the direct links between the drug trade and Maduro? So in a roundabout way, are you trying to say that it's not just the oil that the US is after, they want a piece of the drug pie as well?

Wouldn't be surprised

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

o in a roundabout way, are you trying to say that it's not just the oil that the US is after, they want a piece of the drug pie as well?

Thank you as you just explained it to me and others and solved the puzzle! That's what I meant when a wrote that I brought you on board. One overall trend is that you report link malfunction. I gave you one that works here in the USA and leads to the others.

where's the direct links between the drug trade and Maduro?

They are on that web site so just go to it and click on the links. If you cant you need to upgrade your internet service
provider or change your privacy and / or security settings. Your use of plausible deniability is also in the playbook!

And as written by another OP:

After all, we’re all equal, right? The 12 year old living in his Mom’s basement is equally to the retired CIA agent in his knowledge about how the world works.

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: CriticalStinker


Your proof they are not; economically and via MSM and Social media? So post something? You need to stay out of those garbage cans at night as ATS is on the blacklist as the 6th most unreliable web site for news. Thanks. I want ATS to live on and prosper.

You must have been replying to the wrong member.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: CriticalStinker


Your proof they are not; economically and via MSM and Social media? So post something? You need to stay out of those garbage cans at night as ATS is on the blacklist as the 6th most unreliable web site for news. Thanks. I want ATS to live on and prosper.

You must have been replying to the wrong member.

He must've clicked the wrong link or something, apparently we're all 12 year olds living in mums basement, complete with no understanding of news sources and how URLs work

a reply to: Waterglass

You expect me to go through the stuff you posted in order to verify claims you're making, shouldn't it be you doing that?

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

So far I'd say the first part of the thread title is proven wrong. The second part to me is moot, but I can answer it.

China and Russia have loaned Venezuela money, some of that money is leveraged by shares of PDVSA as collateral. Ironically, our sanctions have made that a real possibility (the loans faulting).

Per the "support" Russia and China provide, not all of the loans are protected. So their support is more likely trying to get their loans reconciled.

originally posted by: Malisa

I just want to see what happens with Venezuela if no sanctions are forced on them at all, in the entire world, so they can do business as any other country. I guess that's the best way to show if they will fail or not

Fair or not?

There are over 50 countries with sanctions in place against Venezuela.

The EU sanctions stem from Chavez threatening to invade and assimilate Dutch territories in the Caribbean. Columbia and Guyanna (and the British commonwealth) have been threatened with invasion for decades. Then there's the indigenous population that Chavez exterminated to make room for his "missions", collectivized village/corporations of the urban poor he forced to move to the jungle where the state claims ownership of the resources. Peru claims that Venezuela was the financier of the "Shining Path" rebels, and the primary transshipper of "Peruvian marching powder" (respect to the censorbots) into the US and EU.

So, once you get America to drop its sanctions, you still got two score and ten countries with huge beefs with the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

AND Maduro gets to keep his crown.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

You expect me to go through the stuff you posted in order to verify claims you're making, shouldn't it be you doing that?

Yes I do as its an easy click of the mouse and you will get to the web page in seconds and yes, as an adult I expect you to click on the live links as they offer transparency. You don't simply want to because it removes your plausible deniability cloak which in turn allows you to plead ignorance and take the Thread off topic which you have done. That's OK because you showed me a card so I have now learned something new.

Really and Thank You!!!

Too bad they don't have guns. The only good commie is one with a few 5.56mm tattoos.

a reply to: Waterglass

Yes I do as its an easy click of the mouse and you will get to the web page in seconds and yes, as an adult I expect you to click on the live links as they offer transparency.

But you should have done that because you're the one making the claims

You don't simply want to because it removes your plausible deniability cloak which in turn allows you to plead ignorance and take the Thread off topic which you have done.

The topic is non-existent anyway, you can't seem to provide anything to prove what you're saying, and you expect me to do it for you.

That's OK because you showed me a card so I have now learned something new.

What, like learn how to spot objective journalism?

a reply to: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Graysen

originally posted by: Malisa

I just want to see what happens with Venezuela if no sanctions are forced on them at all, in the entire world, so they can do business as any other country. I guess that's the best way to show if they will fail or not

Fair or not?

There are over 50 countries with sanctions in place against Venezuela.

The EU sanctions stem from Chavez threatening to invade and assimilate Dutch territories in the Caribbean. Columbia and Guyanna (and the British commonwealth) have been threatened with invasion for decades. Then there's the indigenous population that Chavez exterminated to make room for his "missions", collectivized village/corporations of the urban poor he forced to move to the jungle where the state claims ownership of the resources. Peru claims that Venezuela was the financier of the "Shining Path" rebels, and the primary transshipper of "Peruvian marching powder" (respect to the censorbots) into the US and EU.

So, once you get America to drop its sanctions, you still got two score and ten countries with huge beefs with the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

AND Maduro gets to keep his crown.

Most of those countries placed sanctions on Venezuela because the US required them to do it, in a nice gentle and diplomatic way or else

But it would be worth it to see what can happen in that scenario, if they still fail well so be it. Can't be worse than what's going on right now, so what's the loss?

There are other countries in an even worse state, Haiti for example, where the US supported gov is actually causing massive suffering, yet we don't hear anything about it because it is a US controlled government.

Why don't help there when it's clear they are way worse than Venezuela. And yet those guys in control of Haiti also get to keep their crown and are not being bothered at all while the Haitians are dying in the streets for real, and i don't mean fat well dressed protesters getting sent home like in Venezuela, i mean really dying on the streets, you must have seen videos of reality in Haiti by now.. I hope so at least

This entire Venezuela game is so forced that it's making less sense day by day, so many empty words, so many empty threats, so many failed attempts, so many lies. It's getting boring and tiring and nothing really changes one way or another