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The Liberal Democrats Want To Stop Brexit. Can Someone Help Me With This.

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posted on May, 13 2019 @ 03:55 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
Personally I like being a European citizen.


No one asked me whether I want to be, or not. Sure, it has advantages, but struggling to think what they are for the vast majority of people in the UK.




posted on May, 13 2019 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot


Personally I like being a European citizen.


As a rule of thumb I like European people.
I've travelled a lot throughout Europe and have met some wonderful people - a few arseholes as well but I'm afraid they are everywhere - and had some great times.
But I feel no collective kinship with them.
Sure, we share many values with them some of which we are far more in line with than those of our colonial cousins across the pond.

But, I feel no sense of close kinship with them.
Unlike I do with those from the other constituent nations of the UK.
And even unlike I do with those from Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

None of this has any real bearing on my dislike of the EU and my desire to be free from its dictates etc.

I like being English.
I like being British.

I don't want to be a European citizen.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 06:42 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

I am rees mogg and the like would prefer it if we were still subjects.

Personally I like being a European citizen.



Well you can always immigrate to any one of the 27 EU countries and remain

an European citizen....... Mrs Merkle is BIG on immigration so you would feel

really at home?



Well I could but thanks to the Brexit vote removing some of my rights that has become considerable harder.

Besides which why should I have to move to avoid being stripped of citizenship?



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 06:44 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Personally I like being a European citizen.


No one asked me whether I want to be, or not. Sure, it has advantages, but struggling to think what they are for the vast majority of people in the UK.


Right to live & work across the whole of Europe springs to mind.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 06:51 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot


Personally I like being a European citizen.


As a rule of thumb I like European people.
I've travelled a lot throughout Europe and have met some wonderful people - a few arseholes as well but I'm afraid they are everywhere - and had some great times.
But I feel no collective kinship with them.
Sure, we share many values with them some of which we are far more in line with than those of our colonial cousins across the pond.

But, I feel no sense of close kinship with them.
Unlike I do with those from the other constituent nations of the UK.
And even unlike I do with those from Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

None of this has any real bearing on my dislike of the EU and my desire to be free from its dictates etc.

I like being English.
I like being British.

I don't want to be a European citizen.



With the exception of language I don't see why geography has a particular bearing on how much or little kinship I have with someone.

I have more in common with someone with a similar background to me in Belgium or Italy than I do with someone from a completely different background in the UK.

I have no problem being Scottish , British and European. (Except when it comes to rugby in which case you are all bloody foreigners, especially the Italians)



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

Well I could but thanks to the Brexit vote removing some of my rights that has become considerable harder.
Besides which why should I have to move to avoid being stripped of citizenship?



I would have thought it was pretty obvious ........ because when you leave

a club be it gym, golf, EU, or any other, you cease to be a member.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Well I could but thanks to the Brexit vote removing some of my rights that has become considerable harder.
Besides which why should I have to move to avoid being stripped of citizenship?



I would have thought it was pretty obvious ........ because when you leave

a club be it gym, golf, EU, or any other, you cease to be a member.



Exactly why I don't want to leave. I like the club benefits.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot



With the exception of language I don't see why geography has a particular bearing on how much or little kinship I have with someone.


I may feel empathy with people from a similar background but whether we like it or not geography and boundaries can and do help determine a sense of kinship.
Shared history, culture, values etc create social bonds between people.

Of course it should not be the single determining factor.



I have no problem being Scottish , British and European.


And you shouldn't, just I personally feel little kinship with continental Europeans.
That doesn't mean I don't like them or am anti-European, far from it.

I am anti-EU.
Unfortunately many cannot differentiate between anti-EU and anti-European.



(Except when it comes to rugby in which case you are all bloody foreigners, especially the Italians)


When it comes to sport nationality is everything, that's how it should be.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
Right to live & work across the whole of Europe springs to mind.


Not actually very useful to the vast majority of Brits though, but quite useful for EU nationals who want to move to the UK.

Granted there is a large expat population of Brits living in EU countries, mainly Spain and Ireland, but being a "EU citizen" never stopped people living and working abroad, nor will it stop EU nationals moving to and working in the UK after Brexit.
edit on 13/5/2019 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Right to live & work across the whole of Europe springs to mind.


Not actually very useful to the vast majority of Brits though, but quite useful for EU nationals who want to move to the UK.

Granted there is a large expat population of Brits living in EU countries, mainly Spain and Ireland, but being a "EU citizen" never stopped people living and working abroad, nor will it stop EU nationals moving to and working in the UK after Brexit.


There is a fairly fundamental difference between the right to live & work and being able apply to.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

Exactly why I don't want to leave. I like the club benefits.



Unfortunately for you the majority don't ..... thats democracy !!



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Exactly why I don't want to leave. I like the club benefits.



Unfortunately for you the majority don't ..... thats democracy !!




Maybe maybe not (polls suggest not).

Why we should have another referendum to find out.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is a fairly fundamental difference between the right to live & work and being able apply to.


Yes, I agree. Of course the rights also carry access to social security, health and all that of the country one moves to.

To expand my point: The rights of EU citizenship can be replicated in most circumstances, but for the vast majority of UK citizens they are irrelevent becuase they will never move, or get a job in Naples, or Plock. Based on the numbers, the main beneficairies are EU nationals moving to the UK, which I have no problem with, but it's a fact.

My other point was that EU citizenship was forced on me. I do not consider myself a citizen of the EU. I am European, but that's it.

Also to note that unless the EU force the Republic of Ireland to change, the Common Travel Area will continue, and this pretty well overwites EU citizenship for people from the Republic and for Uk nationals living and working in the Republic.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is a fairly fundamental difference between the right to live & work and being able apply to.


Yes, I agree. Of course the rights also carry access to social security, health and all that of the country one moves to.

To expand my point: The rights of EU citizenship can be replicated in most circumstances, but for the vast majority of UK citizens they are irrelevent becuase they will never move, or get a job in Naples, or Plock. Based on the numbers, the main beneficairies are EU nationals moving to the UK, which I have no problem with, but it's a fact.

My other point was that EU citizenship was forced on me. I do not consider myself a citizen of the EU. I am European, but that's it.

Also to note that unless the EU force the Republic of Ireland to change, the Common Travel Area will continue, and this pretty well overwites EU citizenship for people from the Republic and for Uk nationals living and working in the Republic.


Rights are important regardless of how many people actually use them.

Technically your UK citizenship was also forced on you by accident of birth.

If the majority of people in the UK want us to leave the EU and collectively give up the benefits and costs that that membership gives then that is the democratic thing to do. My issue is entirely the idea that we are locked into this decision based on a 3-year old vote.



posted on May, 13 2019 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

If the majority of people in the UK want us to leave the EU and collectively give up the benefits and costs that that membership gives then that is the democratic thing to do. My issue is entirely the idea that we are locked into this decision based on a 3-year old vote.



3 year old vote?

chicken feed ......... Many of us have spent time in the EU we didnt want to

on a 45 year old vote!!



posted on May, 14 2019 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot


Why we should have another referendum to find out.


We had a referendum three years ago.
The only reasons it hasn't been enacted upon are the incompetence of our politicians and their pompous and arrogant belief that they know better than the great unwashed who dared to vote to leave, the refusal of Remainers to respect the result of a democratic vote and the bullying, uncompromising and dictatorial nature of the EU.


If the majority of people in the UK want us to leave the EU and collectively give up the benefits and costs that that membership gives then that is the democratic thing to do.


Then why didn't you respect the result of the referendum three years ago?
Why would it have been undemocratic to implement the result of that referendum?

Why would a second referendum have more validity than the first especially considering that ignoring the result of the first referendum immediately invalidates the whole process and democratic ethos surrounding referendums?



My issue is entirely the idea that we are locked into this decision based on a 3-year old vote.


Why are we 'locked into' decisions made two years ago in the last General Election?
Things have changed since then and I don't like the result of it so I think we should have another General Election.

If people had accepted the result of the referendum and then worked together to move this country forward in a positive manner we wouldn't be in the pathetic situation we are in today.

edit on 14/5/19 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2019 @ 04:25 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

What, a three year old vote that has been effectively ignored? It's OK to do that, is it? Have another one until you get what you want?



posted on May, 14 2019 @ 04:33 AM
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Reply went weird _ Will try again.
edit on 14-5-2019 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2019 @ 04:34 AM
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originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

What, a three year old vote that has been effectively ignored? It's OK to do that, is it? Have another one until you get what you want?



How has it been ignored?

As itstands at the moment we are leaving the EU.



posted on May, 14 2019 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

But we have not left, have we?




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