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Turning the Other Cheek Takes Great Courage

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posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul

originally posted by: Tartuffe
a reply to: zosimov

I think it is the other way about, that we are the weakest and at our most submissive when we allow others to abuse us. Defiance is nobler than submissiveness.


I hear what you're saying but the way I understand it, turning the other cheek is the ultimate act of defiance rather than submissiveness.


It's the morality of a man in chains.




posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
What if you are being baited?

If it's by a master then you should certainly not turn the other cheek.


This is taking some real thought.
Okay, If she is a master, then I definitely wouldn't turn my cheek, because of eye placement.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't view it as passiveness but rather a contract with my own principles. Sometimes it's harder to do the right thing than act out of emotion. I don't see as much evil around the world as I do people who are misguided or a manifestation of insecurities. If I'm vigilant on maintaining my peace of mind, there's nothing passive about that. Those who seek to defeat evil with violence with consume themselves with darkness until they resemble the very thing they fight.
edit on 25-4-2019 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Tartuffe
No I'm speaking of Matthew 5:38-42


And I'm speaking of Versace SS19.


Have you tried any stand up commedy?




posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Tartuffe
No I'm speaking of Matthew 5:38-42


And I'm speaking of Versace SS19.


Have you tried any stand up commedy?



I'm sure he's eaten a comic before. Question is, did it taste funny?



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:34 PM
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It's the morality of a man in chains.


It's the morality that breaks the chain.

When you can do things sellflessly, rather than selfishly you will know.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul
Have you tried any stand up commedy?



I'm too lazy for stand up, if I could just deliver the punchlines lying on the stage in my own vomit I'd be fine.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That could work! You'd just need someone as a muse or a side kick.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't view it as passiveness but rather a contract with my own principles. Sometimes it's harder to do the right thing than act out of emotion. I don't see as much evil around the world as I do people who are misguided or a manifestation of insecurities. If I'm vigilant on maintaining my peace of mind, there's nothing passive about that. Those who seek to defeat evil with violence with consume themselves with darkness until they resemble the very thing they fight.


I can appreciate that view.

But in the context of Matthew 5 the punishment for not abiding by the commandments was to burn in hell. As I see it, these are Jesus' tips for avoiding eternal torment in the lake of fire. That's why it is much better to turn the other cheek, or to gouge out your own eye, because at least you won't burn in hell.

If one doesn't fear hell, that isn't the case. The evil will not burn in a lake of fire. The passive will not go to heaven. The evil will prevail if everyone lays prostrate before them.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: surfer_soul
Have you tried any stand up commedy?



I'm too lazy for stand up, if I could just deliver the punchlines lying on the stage in my own vomit I'd be fine.


That's how I justify the weekends. I tell everyone it's just stand up comedy.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Tartuffe


But in the context of Matthew 5 the punishment for not abiding by the commandments was to burn in hell. As I see it, these are Jesus' tips for avoiding eternal torment in the lake of fire. That's why it is much better to turn the other cheek, or to gouge out your own eye, because at least you won't burn in hell.


At the end of the day if the book is true, I think it all comes down to intent. Is their righteousness by living purely out of fear of damnation or reward of salvation? Or does one try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing? I don't look at the bible by verses but rather as a whole. The end message to me has always been religion and dogma can be just as bad as anything else. Just try and do whats right without waiver. Sometimes standing up for your principles means you have to take a blow to your pride.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe

I can appreciate that view.

As can I. In fact... Critical sums up my ideas on the subject even better than my own words on the matter (in the OP).




The evil will prevail if everyone lays prostrate before them.


I'm curious about your take on Daryl Davis (case highlighted in OP). How many KKK hoods would that man have collected had he chosen to take the Klan on through violence or to meet them in kind?
(Though I'm not convinced this is an example of turning the other cheek. It seems related but maybe not quite the same concept.)

Great discussion ATS!


edit on 25-4-2019 by zosimov because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 03:15 PM
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I agree with the concept in general, with the caveat if you turn the other cheek and they strike, then you slip that shot and come back with a hard right!
You bait them with submissiveness and if they can’t appreciate that, then you drop that f@k’n bully. Because bullies are bad too right?



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: surfer_soul



That could work! You'd just need someone as a muse or a side kick.

Versace SS19 don't go well with vomit.
Best get a stand in for your stand up



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: pthena




There's a very ambiguous saying about casting pearls before swine that some people use to justify themselves in the face of rejection. I never considered that I ever understood that before. So just now I found a pretty good quote:


In Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard offers another interpretation. In it, Jesus is not speaking of a wonderful treasure (the pearl), or whether the audience is fit to have it (the swine). Instead, he is observing that the pearl is not helpful. "Pigs cannot digest pearls, cannot nourish themselves upon them." He concludes that this reflects "our efforts to correct and control others by pouring out our good things" that our audience is not ready for, and that our seemingly good intentions will ultimately yield anger, resentment and attack by the audience. This turns the analogy into one that exposes one's self-superiority in thinking the other needs the unbidden advice.
Pearls before swine

Now that makes sense to me. I'll try to remember that next time I feel aggrieved over rejection. What really sucks hard though is when I'm not even giving advice and then I'm accused of giving advice.


Good thread.


What a fascinating way of looking at that saying. Thank you for sharing pthena!
Oops the quote I'm referring to isn't showing up and I don't know why. Here it is:

In Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard offers another interpretation. In it, Jesus is not speaking of a wonderful treasure (the pearl), or whether the audience is fit to have it (the swine). Instead, he is observing that the pearl is not helpful. "Pigs cannot digest pearls, cannot nourish themselves upon them." He concludes that this reflects "our efforts to correct and control others by pouring out our good things" that our audience is not ready for, and that our seemingly good intentions will ultimately yield anger, resentment and attack by the audience. This turns the analogy into one that exposes one's self-superiority in thinking the other needs the unbidden advice. Pearls before swine



edit on 25-4-2019 by zosimov because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: zosimov

Sometimes external quotes don't show up if nested inside quotes. Wonky nesting.

That saying came to mind when I contemplated the last time I really felt personally offended in a visceral way. Ego damage or whatever. That's actually what prompted me to post the Misunderstanding story. (shameless plug)

That interpretation of pearls before swine seems more real than conventional interpretations.
Glad you liked it



edit on 25-4-2019 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: zosimov




I'm curious about your take on Daryl Davis (case highlighted in OP). How many KKK hoods would that man have collected had he chosen to take the Klan on through violence or to meet them in kind?
(Though I'm not convinced this is an example of turning the other cheek. It seems related but maybe not quite the same concept.)

Great discussion ATS!


I love the case of Daryl Davis and the work he's done. I highly recommend his documentary.

I do not think his case is an example of turning the other cheek. It's the same with MLK. Had they applied "turn the other cheek", I don't think they would have done anything at all.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe


But in the context of Matthew 5 the punishment for not abiding by the commandments was to burn in hell. As I see it, these are Jesus' tips for avoiding eternal torment in the lake of fire. That's why it is much better to turn the other cheek, or to gouge out your own eye, because at least you won't burn in hell.


At the end of the day if the book is true, I think it all comes down to intent. Is their righteousness by living purely out of fear of damnation or reward of salvation? Or does one try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing? I don't look at the bible by verses but rather as a whole. The end message to me has always been religion and dogma can be just as bad as anything else. Just try and do whats right without waiver. Sometimes standing up for your principles means you have to take a blow to your pride.


But principles can be wrong. I think that's the case with "turn the other cheek", and pacifism in general.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't see the concept of "turning one's cheek" as one of passivity, as it requires the act of turning away from violence and toward a different potential solution by forcing the opponent's hand (lower it or strike again).

Davis put himself in tremendously vulnerable position and forced his opponents to examine and justify (and ultimately reject) their own actions. I suppose this is where I see his case as related to the subject.



posted on Apr, 25 2019 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Tartuffe

I don't see the concept of "turning one's cheek" as one of passivity, as it requires the act of turning away from violence and toward a different potential solution by forcing the opponent's hand (lower it or strike again).

Davis put himself in tremendously vulnerable position and forced his opponents to examine and justify (and ultimately reject) their own actions. I suppose this is where I see his case as related to the subject.


I understand the modern concept of turn the other cheek, but we should remember that it was always just an example in support of a greater principle, namely, "do not resist an evil person".

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

One could devise many more examples with the same principle. If someone wants your freedom, put yourself in chains. If someone wants take your wife for his own, give them your daughter as well. If someone wants your life, dig your grave for him and lie in it.

This is to give up yourself to exploitation, abuse, slavery, and tyranny.




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