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originally posted by: surfer_soul
originally posted by: Tartuffe
a reply to: zosimov
I think it is the other way about, that we are the weakest and at our most submissive when we allow others to abuse us. Defiance is nobler than submissiveness.
I hear what you're saying but the way I understand it, turning the other cheek is the ultimate act of defiance rather than submissiveness.
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: CriticalStinker
What if you are being baited?
If it's by a master then you should certainly not turn the other cheek.
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: Tartuffe
No I'm speaking of Matthew 5:38-42
And I'm speaking of Versace SS19.
originally posted by: surfer_soul
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: Tartuffe
No I'm speaking of Matthew 5:38-42
And I'm speaking of Versace SS19.
Have you tried any stand up commedy?
It's the morality of a man in chains.
originally posted by: surfer_soul
Have you tried any stand up commedy?
originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe
I don't view it as passiveness but rather a contract with my own principles. Sometimes it's harder to do the right thing than act out of emotion. I don't see as much evil around the world as I do people who are misguided or a manifestation of insecurities. If I'm vigilant on maintaining my peace of mind, there's nothing passive about that. Those who seek to defeat evil with violence with consume themselves with darkness until they resemble the very thing they fight.
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: surfer_soul
Have you tried any stand up commedy?
I'm too lazy for stand up, if I could just deliver the punchlines lying on the stage in my own vomit I'd be fine.
But in the context of Matthew 5 the punishment for not abiding by the commandments was to burn in hell. As I see it, these are Jesus' tips for avoiding eternal torment in the lake of fire. That's why it is much better to turn the other cheek, or to gouge out your own eye, because at least you won't burn in hell.
originally posted by: Tartuffe
I can appreciate that view.
The evil will prevail if everyone lays prostrate before them.
That could work! You'd just need someone as a muse or a side kick.
originally posted by: pthena
There's a very ambiguous saying about casting pearls before swine that some people use to justify themselves in the face of rejection. I never considered that I ever understood that before. So just now I found a pretty good quote:
In Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard offers another interpretation. In it, Jesus is not speaking of a wonderful treasure (the pearl), or whether the audience is fit to have it (the swine). Instead, he is observing that the pearl is not helpful. "Pigs cannot digest pearls, cannot nourish themselves upon them." He concludes that this reflects "our efforts to correct and control others by pouring out our good things" that our audience is not ready for, and that our seemingly good intentions will ultimately yield anger, resentment and attack by the audience. This turns the analogy into one that exposes one's self-superiority in thinking the other needs the unbidden advice.
Pearls before swine
Now that makes sense to me. I'll try to remember that next time I feel aggrieved over rejection. What really sucks hard though is when I'm not even giving advice and then I'm accused of giving advice.
Good thread.
In Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard offers another interpretation. In it, Jesus is not speaking of a wonderful treasure (the pearl), or whether the audience is fit to have it (the swine). Instead, he is observing that the pearl is not helpful. "Pigs cannot digest pearls, cannot nourish themselves upon them." He concludes that this reflects "our efforts to correct and control others by pouring out our good things" that our audience is not ready for, and that our seemingly good intentions will ultimately yield anger, resentment and attack by the audience. This turns the analogy into one that exposes one's self-superiority in thinking the other needs the unbidden advice. Pearls before swine
I'm curious about your take on Daryl Davis (case highlighted in OP). How many KKK hoods would that man have collected had he chosen to take the Klan on through violence or to meet them in kind?
(Though I'm not convinced this is an example of turning the other cheek. It seems related but maybe not quite the same concept.)
Great discussion ATS!
originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tartuffe
But in the context of Matthew 5 the punishment for not abiding by the commandments was to burn in hell. As I see it, these are Jesus' tips for avoiding eternal torment in the lake of fire. That's why it is much better to turn the other cheek, or to gouge out your own eye, because at least you won't burn in hell.
At the end of the day if the book is true, I think it all comes down to intent. Is their righteousness by living purely out of fear of damnation or reward of salvation? Or does one try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing? I don't look at the bible by verses but rather as a whole. The end message to me has always been religion and dogma can be just as bad as anything else. Just try and do whats right without waiver. Sometimes standing up for your principles means you have to take a blow to your pride.
originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Tartuffe
I don't see the concept of "turning one's cheek" as one of passivity, as it requires the act of turning away from violence and toward a different potential solution by forcing the opponent's hand (lower it or strike again).
Davis put himself in tremendously vulnerable position and forced his opponents to examine and justify (and ultimately reject) their own actions. I suppose this is where I see his case as related to the subject.