George Papodapoulos tells the real coup story

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: network dude

The president never even met this guy I thought?

I wasn't there, but according to George, they met, and he knew Trump, if nothing other than professionally.

I guess if you were loosing this badly, you would want to make this a left vs right thing, but it's really not. It's a right vs. wrong thing. And as I said, you don't have to like Trump to realize what happened to him is wrong. I think he was underestimated gigantically. Simply putting a better choice up would have fixed all that, but the choosers couldn't help feeling they knew everything and could control things as they had.

I admit, I was scared to death about what and how a Trump presidency might look like. I expected the clown car type administration, and at the start, it seems to have been just that. But (again, like him or hate him, this is true), he has some policies that are good for all Americans and some of them are working. If he is to be removed, then going against everything he proposes will be a loosing strategy (IMHO).

And Healthcare, real solutions that fix the FUBAR Obamacare disaster would be a winning idea. Who comes up with it first will likely be the winner.

I don't need Trump to feed my ego, I just want to be prosperous and have a safe home. If a democrat can do that without trying to take away my stuff, super, bring it on. But if the message is just "Orange man bad, replace him", it's ignorant and should be ridiculed as such.

I in no way feel like I am loosing this. I am literally using facts that are a priori. He said this.

The red herring strawman you made is the orange man bad. I haven't said such.

I am talking about his policies and his leadership. The only good thing I give him is Gorsuch. I honestly dont care about the investigation details either way. They dont help me in anyway or anyone I know.

What would help would be removing surveillance laws that are very easy to abuse and very hard to prosecute.

But you all are to busy arguing who will win this.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

with 9-11 and the attack fresh on our minds, we practically begged for the Patriot act. It's likely we were all played, but at least we were all duped together.

Want a fresher view? Look at how a lone gunman was able to remove guns in new Zealand. He even said that was his goal, and the idiots fell for it. Just like we did.

The end result is literally the same.

There is no better side.

And why do the surveillance laws keep expanding 18 years later?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

No but it's his words right. Not exactly a neutural source or even a person of integrity worth listening to.

Like the libs going all in on Cohen. The fact many trump supporters (not trump voters who didn't want Hillary or a liberal nutjob) have not waken up to he was surrounded by scumbags who skirt the law like career politicians would.

Neutral source? But you’re singing and defending the official tune as it was conceived by the CIA and the FBI.

I certainly am not. Its somewhere in between.

What I am saying is this happens all the time. If you dont know the game you get caught.

It happens to the public as well. This is literally how most CI's become CI's.

My point is this has been established by president in the legal system. People are brainwashed to care more about politicians like they matter more than the public.

When politicians stopped caring about my rights (especially after expanding the patriot act instead of using it as a temporary emergency act) I honestly stopped caring about theirs and its bound to get on them too.

Why is it ok for a CI to get set up and used to make undercover deals? Or prosecutors to use unrelated event crimes for testimony? Why is it ok to have mass surveillance or bulk collection?

I just am in way surprised this stuff happens. What I believe happened is trumps folks didn't know the CIA does this stuff where as establishment politicians do and avoid the traps.

Trump was still a private citizen at the time this false investigation started. He gave up his playboy lifestyle to wade into civic life. He ran afoul of the IC by criticizing them. They investigated his entire life, his family, and are now doing so to his business career, none of which have anything to do with his political affairs. This is banana republic stuff and we should oppose it at every turn.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

with 9-11 and the attack fresh on our minds, we practically begged for the Patriot act. It's likely we were all played, but at least we were all duped together.

Want a fresher view? Look at how a lone gunman was able to remove guns in new Zealand. He even said that was his goal, and the idiots fell for it. Just like we did.

The end result is literally the same.

There is no better side.

And why do the surveillance laws keep expanding 18 years later?

LOL, why indeed. Perhaps that isn't the job of the President, but more of a "deep state" function. But blame whomever you wish, I doubt it will matter.

And my interpretation of your views has to do with your posting history and interacting with you here, not on a singular post. I get you are anti Trump, I just think that he has done a few more good things than a single SCOTUS pick. He has also done some stupid things. I'm not so blinded by partisan doucebagery to notice, at least I don't think so.

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

No but it's his words right. Not exactly a neutural source or even a person of integrity worth listening to.

Like the libs going all in on Cohen. The fact many trump supporters (not trump voters who didn't want Hillary or a liberal nutjob) have not waken up to he was surrounded by scumbags who skirt the law like career politicians would.

Neutral source? But you’re singing and defending the official tune as it was conceived by the CIA and the FBI.

I certainly am not. Its somewhere in between.

What I am saying is this happens all the time. If you dont know the game you get caught.

It happens to the public as well. This is literally how most CI's become CI's.

My point is this has been established by president in the legal system. People are brainwashed to care more about politicians like they matter more than the public.

When politicians stopped caring about my rights (especially after expanding the patriot act instead of using it as a temporary emergency act) I honestly stopped caring about theirs and its bound to get on them too.

Why is it ok for a CI to get set up and used to make undercover deals? Or prosecutors to use unrelated event crimes for testimony? Why is it ok to have mass surveillance or bulk collection?

I just am in way surprised this stuff happens. What I believe happened is trumps folks didn't know the CIA does this stuff where as establishment politicians do and avoid the traps.

Trump was still a private citizen at the time this false investigation started. He gave up his playboy lifestyle to wade into civic life. He ran afoul of the IC by criticizing them. They investigated his entire life, his family, and are now doing so to his business career, none of which have anything to do with his political affairs. This is banana republic stuff and we should oppose it at every turn.

We should be but those aren't the topics being discussed. Trump himself passed a bill that expanded FISA nets to include more Americans with electronic surveillance.

Where is the uproar over all the people getting busted with possession of a drug and being turned into undercover CI's? Or asset seizures by police before trial?

I have been pissed about this stuff since I became an adult. Arguing about how it now effects the idiot's that passed the legislation in the first place doesn't help the cause of the problem at all.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

with 9-11 and the attack fresh on our minds, we practically begged for the Patriot act. It's likely we were all played, but at least we were all duped together.

Want a fresher view? Look at how a lone gunman was able to remove guns in new Zealand. He even said that was his goal, and the idiots fell for it. Just like we did.

The end result is literally the same.

There is no better side.

And why do the surveillance laws keep expanding 18 years later?

LOL, why indeed. Perhaps that isn't the job of the President, but more of a "deep state" function. But blame whomever you wish, I doubt it will matter.

And my interpretation of your views has to do with your posting history and interacting with you here, not on a singular post. I get you are anti Trump, I just think that he has done a few more good things than a single SCOTUS pick. He has also done some stupid things. I'm not so blinded by partisan doucebagery to notice, at least I don't think so.

Ok well I guess I was also anti obama.

Again dont group into partisan hatred my dislike is policy and leadership based.

You have to understand I believe the president should be largely symbolic and more of a motivational leader. I even side with GW that it should only be 2 years.

My bolder voice for trump is his supporters thinking he is some kind of messiah.

If we were to debate policy specifics you would see I have "logical" problems with them. They may be idealistic but they are not tribal.

The president does have power to veto things like expanding fisa so there will be a debate. He just chooses not to

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: luthier

usual?
so that then makes trump amateur and unusual right?
so you rail against the usual and unusual now?

well done

Lol. Trump is morally equal to professionals. His amateur nature at executing hisnprofiteering self serving ways are less skilled.

off to access his morality now?
mkay
so it is ok that this was done because he is "less skilled"?
are you now cheering on the "more skilled" establishment?
I am confused

none of which has to do with pop or his interview

twitter.com...

“Former CIA analyst Larry Johnson accuses United Kingdom Intelligence of helping Obama Administration Spy on the 2016 Trump Presidential Campaign.”

what are the odds?

but none of this ever happened right?
skilled professionals right?

the only question left is who is gonna turn on who now that the investigation is over

this is too much...
lol
www.theguardian.com...

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told. GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added. Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

but pop made it all up to sell books....
lol

originally posted by: shooterbrody
this is too much...
lol
www.theguardian.com...

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told. GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added. Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

but pop made it all up to sell books....
lol

Lol. The spin is it was illegal.

Like what I keep saying perhaps you are not as focused on how the laws are so easy to abuse and so hard to prosecute for abuse.

Until the laws are changed and restrictions on surveillance practices this continues infinitely.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: shooterbrody
this is too much...
lol
www.theguardian.com...

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told. GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added. Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

but pop made it all up to sell books....
lol

Lol. The spin is it was illegal.

Like what I keep saying perhaps you are not as focused on how the laws are so easy to abuse and so hard to prosecute for abuse.

Until the laws are changed and restrictions on surveillance practices this continues infinitely.

I’m not sure I agree on calling that spin, exactly. On its face, illegal/perjury.

On one hand, you have a declassified C. Page FISA app stating as fact Page is “an agent of foreign power” and “coordinating with the Russian government.”

Mueller report pretty much says NOPE.

So you tell me, straight comparison of two original source documents, the FISA app v. Mueller report. What is one to think?

No spin. Like I said above, on its face to me that Page application looks like perjury.

I don’t know about Papadopoulos.

a reply to: luthier

Lol. The spin is it was illegal.

It is not "spin" if it is fact.
and a far cry from your

No but it's his words right. Not exactly a neutural source or even a person of integrity worth listening to.

but hey you can't be wrong .....its all "spin"

our allies with the "special relationship" didn't attempt to do what was claimed russia did....right?
that is not at all dangerous....right?

a reply to: shooterbrody

Again I don't agree with the claim of why. You are neglecting "probable cause" and how the surveillance laws are able to stretch this.

Also how rediculous is your response that it doesnt bother me?

I say over and over again it bothers me. It just doesnt bother me like it does you because I know how this happened and how often it happens. Have you ever researched fisa abuse post 911?

Did you miss the Snowden report? I mean so what now politicians are using the same tricks they use on us on each other?

Again my point is an actual solution. Change and debate the unconstitutional surveillance laws. Getting caught up in the he said she said doesnt stop the problem at all.

a reply to: ucanthandlethetruth

The Mueller report does not say Page did not believe there was a concern.

I think what you and many are not getting is the FISA process is easy to abuse and hard to prosecute for abuse.

Like a cop pulling you over for probable cause if the state law says it can include grateful dead stickers.

a reply to: luthier

mkay

blow it off until the facts are brought to you then blame the system...
nice
no worries

perhaps next time instead of claiming someone wants to write a book you could rail against a corrupt system.

lol
what a joke

a reply to: shooterbrody

I guess I live in a world where more than one thing can be true.

Since you know I have been doing so the whole thread.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: ucanthandlethetruth

The Mueller report does not say Page did not believe there was a concern.

I think what you and many are not getting is the FISA process is easy to abuse and hard to prosecute for abuse.

Like a cop pulling you over for probable cause if the state law says it can include grateful dead stickers.

FISA was specifically designed to be hard to abuse. Unless you install corrupt judges and FBI.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: olaru12
Bearded fat guys with a youtube channel. Watch out fox and CNN....

says the "independent" film maker....
so much for that "independent" spirit right.....

I work corporate gigs as well....union proud, union strong

I don't begrudge Pap out promoting his book. It's capitalism and even donks deserve its benefits.

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: ucanthandlethetruth

The Mueller report does not say Page did not believe there was a concern.

I think what you and many are not getting is the FISA process is easy to abuse and hard to prosecute for abuse.

Like a cop pulling you over for probable cause if the state law says it can include grateful dead stickers.

FISA was specifically designed to be hard to abuse. Unless you install corrupt judges and FBI.

This is false. Again take my metaphor it isn't "abuse" of the lawmakers made the law a bumper sticker is probable cause.

The problem is the scope of fisa laws post 911. And if you have followed this you would see there have been 100's of cases of abuse for fisa warrants even dating prior. The punishment is being banned from application in those cases.

a reply to: luthier

I guess I live in a world where more than one thing can be true.

don't we all....