The future of America if we don't wake up, fleeing high taxes including the US

a reply to: luthier

Californians alone pay more federal taxes than the 25 lowest-paying states combined

Lol, yea they also have the largest population to pay taxes, followed by New York and Texas, etc.

If ten people throw in $10/each and a separate group of 5 throws in $10/each, which group gathered the most money?

a reply to: JAGStorm

Explain what? Florida is exactly in the middle.

All I am saying is lower taxes are only good if you are paying your bills. Keeping taxes low while requiring the rest of the country to pay for you isn't an accomplishment to be proud of imo.

Waste is bad not taxes. Taxes used properly are a requirement of the social contract. They give you the safer to drive your car to work and get paid. When the money is wasted that is the sin. When it isn't even debates properly or part of the public discourse it's a problem.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: luthier

Californians alone pay more federal taxes than the 25 lowest-paying states combined

Lol, yea they also have the largest population to pay taxes, followed by New York and Texas, etc.

If ten people throw in $10/each and a separate group of 5 throws in $10/each, which group gathered the most money?

Nope. They have more people contributing than taking. They have more people making more money (a good thing yes) and less people needing aid.

If what you were saying was true it should be possible to balance a budget in South Carolina that doesn't need federal money. The population of California and NY are in cities which pay for their rural areas.

My point is for all the complaints the fact is millionaire liberals in sanfran pay for low taxes in Alabama. So let's stop making it partisan.

The focus should be incentivizing work. You are both correct that income tax rates are too high and a bad incentive for work.

originally posted by: luthier
Ok find me one of those low tax areas or Republican states that doesn't need federal money to pay their budgets.

Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, Utah and Oklahoma are all net contributors to the Federal budget and have voted Republican consistently for President.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: luthier
Ok find me one of those low tax areas or Republican states that doesn't need federal money to pay their budgets.

Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, Utah and Oklahoma are all net contributors to the Federal budget and have voted Republican consistently for President.

This is true. They also rely on natural resources to do so.

My point was simply low taxes doesnt always mean fiscal responsibility. Look at the latest federal tax break vs the budget deficit. And liberals are not always bad they in fact pay a ton of taxes for conservatives in low tax states. I dont find huge fault in that but I dont like the attack on liberals like they dont contribute to prosperity.

originally posted by: luthier
This is true. They also rely on natural resources to do so.

I don't think that's really relevant, there are states with much larger natural resource pools that are negative contributors.

On a side note why would anyone want to move to a state that receives less than it puts in? Move to South Carolina, they're the welfare queen of the Union getting nearly $8 for each $1 they put in and keep your tax money.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's relevant in the sense that not every state has a heap of money they can mine. There is a point where if the population is low enough the revanue from land leases and tax from resources can carry the population a bit like in Alaska or Wyoming.

You are correct however that that doesnt mean a politician cant find ways to waste the revanue.

Again my point was its probably more rare to have a low tax state pay their bills and that taxes dont indicate fiscal responsibility because of this.

originally posted by: luthier
Again my point was its probably more rare to have a low tax state pay their bills and that taxes dont indicate fiscal responsibility because of this.

There are only 14 states at last count that are net contributors to the Treasury, which is where our concern really should lie.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I agree with you. I was pretty much playing devils advocate about taxes. My point was it is often the case low tax areas are also taking from the federal budget and to me that seems even more amoral than raising taxes for waste. At the very least just as amoral.

originally posted by: luthier
My point was it is often the case low tax areas are also taking from the federal budget and to me that seems even more amoral than raising taxes for waste. At the very least just as amoral.

Not all, but most, and it's both a Republican and Democrat issue by the data I found.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The data seems to indicate places with let's just say not very low taxes pay more in and take less. Not all of them.

It also shows the areas some conservatives like to make fun of like NYC or California cities provide a lot of revanue to conservative states.

I mean my only point I guess is to be disruptive in tribalism. It isn't so simple. Some Republican states act very entitled some liberal states have to balance the budget and vice versa.

The spin is the hard part to get through sometimes.

a reply to: luthier

The data seems to indicate places with let's just say not very low taxes pay more in and take less. Not all of them.

So the data doesn't indicate places with higher taxes take less. You're just taking it out of context to fit your narrative is all that is happening.

Some Republican states act very entitled some liberal states have to balance the budget and vice versa.

Keywords vice versa, which means it goes both ways.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

The data actually does show favor to liberal higher tax areas it is not unanimous however. They are also higher populations and desirable places to work so the data isn't linear or so simple to analyze. It could be the Republicans within liberal cities have all the wealth but the closer data doesnt indicate that either.

People are people and they work better when happy. No matter where they are from.

I just dont think low taxes usually or most often indicate less dependence. That is what the data shows but its statistical so up for debate as to what it means.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
Not only do the people flee the high tax areas, but the businesses that provide the jobs to pay those taxes leave as well. It's to bad the Democrats still don't realize this. Obama thought a magic wand was necessary to bring jobs back, but Trump showed him all it took was common sense.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Not necessarily this article, but that site (Illinois policy) in general talks about it a lot. There are many stories about business owners leaving the state. It is actually pretty sad. Some have been there for generations and are now finally throwing in the towel.

This is not correct. Businesses are not leaving California in fact its growth outpaces the US. NYC?

And how about the low tax areas requiring my federal tax dollars support their budget shortfalls?

PS I am all for the lowest taxes possible. I am not however for lowering taxes without balancing the budget out. If you do the research you will find low tax conservative states need more federal assistance for budget shortfalls and states like California provide a surplus of federal taxes.

So basically sanfran is paying for mobile to have low taxes because they cant balance their budget with the revenue they collect.

People are fleeing CA left and right. Particularly, the middle classes. The CA population is being split between the wealthy and poor. The tech industry in the bay area is doing well, but even now people are starting to leave because it is too expensive and those companies are having a hard time finding younger workers. Every tech company has major hubs in much lower cost of living cities.

The only reason they stay in the bay area is because that is where all the major venture capital firms are located. They need to be close to the early stage investors.

There is no possible way CA is a "net contributor" unless you are excluding the costs associated with all the illegals.

As a resident of Illinois, the state is controlled by corrupt Democrats. The fiscal issues are a direct result of self-dealing between corrupt liberal politicians and the unions.

Chicago is booming economically. Attracting a lot of high paying jobs in finance and tech. Most of the outflow is actually the lower classes due to crime, bad schools, and few low skilled jobs.

Downstate Illinois suffers because the manufacturing base in the country has been gutted.

A lot of people leave Illinois once they retire due to the high property taxes which are a direct result of the underfunded pension issues. It is ironic. Teachers, Police & Fire, and government workers take their fat retirement that is bankrupting Illinois to lower tax states.

Here is another article talking about how each Illinois resident owes $139,000.

Chicago Pensions Looking More Like a Collapsing Ponzi Scheme

The problem is compounded by the fact Chicago households can’t afford the amount of pension debt that’s been racked up by state and local politicians. Spread out the $145 billion in overlapping government pension and retiree health care debt – from the city, the Chicago Public Schools, Cook County governments and the state – and each Chicago household is, on average, on the hook for more than $139,000 each. It’s an insane amount and it’s tabulated in the following graphic. (Retirement debt calculations are shown based on both official and Moody’s-based estimates.)

What is even crazier is that Democrats put it in the state constitution that pensions must be paid. What this means is all other state services can be cut except pensions. The state can't bankrupt itself to wipe out the debt unless the change the constitution which is unlikely with Democrats running everything.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
Not only do the people flee the high tax areas, but the businesses that provide the jobs to pay those taxes leave as well. It's to bad the Democrats still don't realize this. Obama thought a magic wand was necessary to bring jobs back, but Trump showed him all it took was common sense.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Not necessarily this article, but that site (Illinois policy) in general talks about it a lot. There are many stories about business owners leaving the state. It is actually pretty sad. Some have been there for generations and are now finally throwing in the towel.

This is not correct. Businesses are not leaving California in fact its growth outpaces the US. NYC?

And how about the low tax areas requiring my federal tax dollars support their budget shortfalls?

PS I am all for the lowest taxes possible. I am not however for lowering taxes without balancing the budget out. If you do the research you will find low tax conservative states need more federal assistance for budget shortfalls and states like California provide a surplus of federal taxes.

So basically sanfran is paying for mobile to have low taxes because they cant balance their budget with the revenue they collect.

People are fleeing CA left and right. Particularly, the middle classes. The CA population is being split between the wealthy and poor. The tech industry in the bay area is doing well, but even now people are starting to leave because it is too expensive and those companies are having a hard time finding younger workers. Every tech company has major hubs in much lower cost of living cities.

The only reason they stay in the bay area is because that is where all the major venture capital firms are located. They need to be close to the early stage investors.

There is no possible way CA is a "net contributor" unless you are excluding the costs associated with all the illegals.

Well maybe you should check the numbers. California is one of the world's largest economies and in fact nearly doubles the GDP input of any state.

a reply to: Edumakated

It's also how they pay people 30k by giving them cadalac benefit programs.

It's a terrible idea but isn't as crazy as you are making it sound. It's just a low thought early gain solution that devours states in the end

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
Not only do the people flee the high tax areas, but the businesses that provide the jobs to pay those taxes leave as well. It's to bad the Democrats still don't realize this. Obama thought a magic wand was necessary to bring jobs back, but Trump showed him all it took was common sense.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Not necessarily this article, but that site (Illinois policy) in general talks about it a lot. There are many stories about business owners leaving the state. It is actually pretty sad. Some have been there for generations and are now finally throwing in the towel.

This is not correct. Businesses are not leaving California in fact its growth outpaces the US. NYC?

And how about the low tax areas requiring my federal tax dollars support their budget shortfalls?

PS I am all for the lowest taxes possible. I am not however for lowering taxes without balancing the budget out. If you do the research you will find low tax conservative states need more federal assistance for budget shortfalls and states like California provide a surplus of federal taxes.

So basically sanfran is paying for mobile to have low taxes because they cant balance their budget with the revenue they collect.

People are fleeing CA left and right. Particularly, the middle classes. The CA population is being split between the wealthy and poor. The tech industry in the bay area is doing well, but even now people are starting to leave because it is too expensive and those companies are having a hard time finding younger workers. Every tech company has major hubs in much lower cost of living cities.

The only reason they stay in the bay area is because that is where all the major venture capital firms are located. They need to be close to the early stage investors.

There is no possible way CA is a "net contributor" unless you are excluding the costs associated with all the illegals.

Well maybe you should check the numbers. California is one of the world's largest economies and in fact nearly doubles the GDP input of any state.

None of that means the state is run in a fiscally sound manner. Being large doesn't mean jack if your expenses are even larger.

If you care to look, there is plenty of data on how people are fleeing the state for the reasons mentioned. Yes, there are people who are willing to live there, but to act like CA is all sunshine and rainbows is a denial of reality.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
Not only do the people flee the high tax areas, but the businesses that provide the jobs to pay those taxes leave as well. It's to bad the Democrats still don't realize this. Obama thought a magic wand was necessary to bring jobs back, but Trump showed him all it took was common sense.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Not necessarily this article, but that site (Illinois policy) in general talks about it a lot. There are many stories about business owners leaving the state. It is actually pretty sad. Some have been there for generations and are now finally throwing in the towel.

This is not correct. Businesses are not leaving California in fact its growth outpaces the US. NYC?

And how about the low tax areas requiring my federal tax dollars support their budget shortfalls?

PS I am all for the lowest taxes possible. I am not however for lowering taxes without balancing the budget out. If you do the research you will find low tax conservative states need more federal assistance for budget shortfalls and states like California provide a surplus of federal taxes.

So basically sanfran is paying for mobile to have low taxes because they cant balance their budget with the revenue they collect.

People are fleeing CA left and right. Particularly, the middle classes. The CA population is being split between the wealthy and poor. The tech industry in the bay area is doing well, but even now people are starting to leave because it is too expensive and those companies are having a hard time finding younger workers. Every tech company has major hubs in much lower cost of living cities.

The only reason they stay in the bay area is because that is where all the major venture capital firms are located. They need to be close to the early stage investors.

There is no possible way CA is a "net contributor" unless you are excluding the costs associated with all the illegals.

Well maybe you should check the numbers. California is one of the world's largest economies and in fact nearly doubles the GDP input of any state.

None of that means the state is run in a fiscally sound manner. Being large doesn't mean jack if your expenses are even larger.

If you care to look, there is plenty of data on how people are fleeing the state for the reasons mentioned. Yes, there are people who are willing to live there, but to act like CA is all sunshine and rainbows is a denial of reality.

I never acted that way. I just said they are a net contributor and they are.

Do you consider a state that has relied on massive federal funding for their domestic budget (not shipping or national infrastructure) but stays withing their budget fiscally sound?

My point is it's not in any way a liberal or conservative issue to pay into the tax system and pay for America. Liberals by the stats (which are only stats) provide large numbers of federal tax money from dense population centers like LA Anaheim region.

And yeah wealthy people pay more taxes you have to be rich to live in Cali because its incredible beautiful and temperate. If you pressed reset supply and demand of such a temperate and beautiful region would drive up prices again.

a reply to: luthier

my grandfather as well...became a US citizen, where his brothers stayed in Ontario and became citizens there....