Elizabeth warren, college for all, debt cancellation

a reply to: DBCowboy

never.

rhetorical question:Capitalism isn't good for everyone. Is in fact really hard on many. How do you feel about that.

My point is that I'm not suggesting that government can make a utopia.

I'm saying I want to try something new in the hope that it's better than what we got.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: scraedtosleep

I have no problem with border control.

But why spend that money when you can curtail illegal immigration and make a profit?

If you actually start fining companies that hire illegals and legalize marijuana, the government will counter a lot of reasons illegal immigrants cross the border and at the same time make money.

Ah yes, there it is. Nothing like making another mind altering substance legal so more people can use it irresponsibly. That's SOOOO smart.

originally posted by: Edumakated
I'm curious if younger people realize how stupid they sound always asking for free sh*t like money grows on trees.

Everybody else sees it.

State funded schools. They could be reformed to be reasonable, we already pay for them.

If someone makes double the income, they pay more taxes, they consume more goods. Some of them would end up on welfare (edit: end up on welfare without school) .

This could be done to where it wouldn't be free. It would be a system in which we demanded schools who take government money to accept kids with good grades without forcing a mortgage sized debt on them.

It wouldn't have to be free.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I agree with your anti leverage stance.

Would "state" funded schools be as expensive without the "state" funding?
Seems we are part of the way there, why not make some budget adjustments and finish the job?
Seems to me a natural progression from k-12 to k- college or trade school.
There are various ways to get a return.
Military service, volunteer service, jobs in the healthcare industry, as first responders, or as teachers.

The fact that people won't even attempt to discuss this honestly is telling.

a reply to: Edumakated

Our current education system definitely isn't set up to allow anyone from any class or socio-economic background to go to college. It's set up to allow either the rich or the wealthy to go to college.

I'm reasonably smart. I had a 3.5 GPA. Got a 1450 on the SATs. I came from an upper middle class family. And yet I didn't get any scholarships and the only reason I could afford school is because I went in state.

In a European country, based on those credentials, i would've had my pick of school without having to worry about money.

Now imagine I'm someone with the same GPA and test scores but come from a poor family. Would I be better off in Europe or the US?

a reply to: shooterbrody

In 1987, public colleges received three times more revenue funding per-student from state and local governments than from tuition, according to an analysis published Thursday by Peter Hinrichs, a senior research economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. But by 2013, the amount of money public schools received from tuition was roughly the same as what the schools brought in from state and local governments.

link

It's a frivolous racket and it doesn't have to be.

This could be an investment that pays off more than it costs.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

If you were running on these ideas I'd vote for you.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: CriticalStinker

If you were running on these ideas I'd vote for you.

Thank you, like anything it's Nuanced and we can find middle ground to make it sensible.

I don't think Warren will get the votes by asking from one group for another. This can be done with no added cost, but only added benefit.

a reply to: Bluntone22
I've always thought that the best plan for free education would be to fill University/College spots based on future demands/shortfalls.

You have to maintain a grade level that will ensure the person studies and learns, otherwise you pay for the cost of schooling as a retroactive student loan.
You also have to sign a contract stating that you will work in the profession for x number of years in the are where you went to school.

I would be more than willing to be taxed more if this was the case.

a reply to: LSU2018

It's safer than tobacco and alcohol. The only reason it was made illegal in the first place is because of business interests and a politician looking to make a name for himself.

But please continue, tell us how you hate freedom.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

It's a frivolous racket and it doesn't have to be.

I don't disagree with that in some cases.

I agree that education is an investment in the future.

The discussion on how we get there needs to be had at a national level.
The bad orange man had a bit to say on it in 16.

Funny how some of what he said sounds "socialist".
ballotpedia.org...

Trump laid out a student loan repayment plan in a speech in Ohio on October 13, 2016. He said, “We would cap repayment for an affordable portion of the borrower’s income, 12.5 percent, we’d cap it. That gives you a lot to play with and a lot to do. And if borrowers work hard and make their full payments for 15 years, we’ll let them get on with their lives. They just go ahead and they get on with their lives. … Students should not be asked to pay more on the debt than they can afford. And the debt should not be an albatross around their necks for the rest of their lives.

Sounds like at least some of it would be "free" if you make the payments.......

Just an added note... Those who participate in the program could be required to get their two year from community College to save more money and prove themselves before the university.

a reply to: superman2012

On paper that looks good but it ultimately stifles ingenuity. For one it would absolutely kill the liberal arts and push those students towards STEM studies. But even then those STEM students are going to be too worried about conforming to the corporate structure to actually make any worthwhile breakthroughs.

a reply to: shooterbrody
You do raise a valid point. Why must America begin at the national level though? History has always shown that when communities or states have proven a workable and effective system first, then it is more easily acceptable on a national level. Why not progress forward with baby steps?

Historical fact: Free publicly supported schools were introduced in many communities and in 1824 the first true publicly supported high school was formed in in the United States. As the number of high schools grew, so did the quality of the education.

Three hundred high schools were added by the time of the civil war and after a Michigan Supreme Court ruling in 1874 that the school districts must maintain a tax-supported public high school, the popularity of secondary education soared. By 1880 there were 800 high schools in the United States and by 1890 there were 2,500.

Why cannot communities or states begin their own recognized public supported colleges? If it is a winning idea, just as in the past, others will quickly duplicate it to stay relevant.

The same came be done for all of these progressive and socialistic ideas. Make it work and prove it locally before legislating from Congress! Look at how many states have implemented their own marijuana legislation, healthcare reforms can begin at state levels as well.

Edit add: Kalamazoo, Michigan has been doing this since 2006!

Apr 16, 2014 · In 2005, a group of anonymous donors in Kalamazoo launched a bold program. It pays for graduates of the city's public schools to attend any of Michigan's public universities or community colleges.

Source

They actually have sent over 3,000 students to college and spent over 50 million to do so. True, this was done only because of those nasty wealthy and rich donors, but it has been successfully working for over a decade!

a reply to: shooterbrody

Honestly I wouldn't be fully opposed to a program like that. It's not ideal but it gives everyone a similar program to other, more exclusive, student loan forgiveness programs out there.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Edumakated
I'm curious if younger people realize how stupid they sound always asking for free sh*t like money grows on trees.

Everybody else sees it.

State funded schools. They could be reformed to be reasonable, we already pay for them.

If someone makes double the income, they pay more taxes, they consume more goods. Some of them would end up on welfare (edit: end up on welfare without school) .

This could be done to where it wouldn't be free. It would be a system in which we demanded schools who take government money to accept kids with good grades without forcing a mortgage sized debt on them.

It wouldn't have to be free.

Many schools are already free or have significantly reduced tuition. The problem is kids get in their heads they have to go XYZ school even if they can't afford it or have to take on extreme amounts of debt.

In fact, some of the cheapest schools are actually the Ivy League and other prestigious schools. I recently read an article that a private donor to NYU's Medical School basically pledged to cover tuition for ALL STUDENTS going forward. You know, those evil charitable rich people giving back.

My issue is the forgiveness of debt.

We all make choices. I decided in college I wanted an MBA from a Top 5 business school. I knew I couldn't afford the $150k it would cost to attend. However, I also knew that certain jobs like management consulting paid for their analysts to go to business schools since you typically need an MBA to progress career wise.

I studied hard and wound up getting a job a business analyst at a top consulting firm. I worked my ass off (70-80 hours weeks) for 3 years. I got accepted to several top 5 business schools. The firm paid my tuition and I had to take some loans for living expenses. I owed the firm two years of my life to pay them back for the tuition. I gave them 80 hours/week for two years and 100k frequent flyer miles worth of travel.

I quit literally a week after my two years were up to do something else. The point being I made sacrifices to get what I wanted. It isn't asking too much that kids these days think about what they want and make an attainable plan to get it.

I have classmates who served and saw action in the military for the tuition benefits. They made a sacrifice.

Some people had to attend schools they could afford, not the dream school they wanted. That is life.

Asking taxpayers to forgive self-imposed debt is ridiculous.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Edumakated

Our current education system definitely isn't set up to allow anyone from any class or socio-economic background to go to college. It's set up to allow either the rich or the wealthy to go to college.

I'm reasonably smart. I had a 3.5 GPA. Got a 1450 on the SATs. I came from an upper middle class family. And yet I didn't get any scholarships and the only reason I could afford school is because I went in state.

In a European country, based on those credentials, i would've had my pick of school without having to worry about money.

Now imagine I'm someone with the same GPA and test scores but come from a poor family. Would I be better off in Europe or the US?

"Only reason I could affrod school is I went in state..."

That quote right there negated your argument. You went to school. No one said or has argued that you are going to get your pick of schools. There aren't enough seats at every top school, but you did get to go to school.

The ivies offer all kinds of scholarships and reduced tuition for families making under about $150k/yr.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Universal healthcare also makes more sense from an economic sense because it leads to less sick days and higher productivity.

Proof? Didn't think so...

originally posted by: Edumakated
I'm curious if younger people realize how stupid they sound always asking for free sh*t like money grows on trees.

Everybody else sees it.

Wanting the money I spend in taxes every year to go towards educating people instead of the regular dumbassery the government spends it on isn't asking for "free sh*t".

It's asking them to do right for once.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Just for some context I'm visiting my mom right now and asked her how much she paid to go to Texas Tech in the 80s...she said from memory 4 dollars a credit hour.

I Googled it and it's 250 in state and over 500 out of state now.

The education is at the same standard or comparable, so why are we hindering futures for frivolousnsss while they're on campus? Is it for them?