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Cubans: Personified Warnings of Socialist Evils the Left Loves to Ignore

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posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

It's been a part of the Democratic Socialist platform since the 70s.

Let me guess, you think that because he avoided answering the question that he doesn't actually want to do it?

Have you ever read up on what Democratic Socialism is?

I'm guessing not.




posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

It's been a part of the Democratic Socialist platform since the 70s.

Let me guess, you think that because he avoided answering the question that he doesn't actually want to do it?

Have you ever read up on what Democratic Socialism is?

I'm guessing not.


You guess wrong which seems to part of your desire to be unnecessarily combative on this thread.

I know what democratic socialism is.

I also know at least some of the policies forward by democratic socialists in the US.

They don't really seem to be the same thing.

It's also worth noting that nationalised industries are quite common in west European countries, the ones that we have already covered as not being socialist.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Here is the platform for the Liberty Union Party, the one Bernie was a part of from 71-77.

There is some radical hippie stuff but I'm not seeing nationalization of major industries.

They do say at the bottom that the platform is a work in progress so maybe, at some point in time, nationalization of major industries was part of it, but it isn't there now.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Bernie wants to pass the free new deal as well. Which is a confiscatory policy aimed at bankrupting the nation while the only legal entity, government, can run everything that is otherwise illegal for private business to do.

What does that sound like?

It's on his website. That's what he wants. Among a plethora of other asinine "issues" he's championing.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Nationalizing industries is socialist. You need to do more reading on democratic socialism if you think that confiscatory nationalization isn't part of the platform.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

You mentioned a platform. I posted a link to the one belonging to the party he belonged to during the time in question.

You are the one who said to read up on socialist party platforms, you mentioned the Socialist Party USA platform, but since we were discussing Bernie in the 70's, I thought that one was the more relevant one and the one thing you mentioned was not on it.

We could sit here and speculate what any political party might have left off their published platform. I mean it is that type of site but then we are just back to square one in an argument I honestly don't want to be a part of.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

The US has nationalized certain industries at some point in time. Amtrak and Airport security under the TSA are just 2 examples. So the US is already socialist?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nationalizing industries is socialist. You need to do more reading on democratic socialism if you think that confiscatory nationalization isn't part of the platform.


The entire of western Europe has nationalised industries. Is the whole of Europe socialist?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: projectvxn

The US has nationalized certain industries at some point in time. Amtrak and Airport security under the TSA are just 2 examples. So the US is already socialist?


Those two examples are, in fact, examples of socialist policies.

This does not make the US a socialist nation.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.


The argument made throughout this thread is that policies advocated by the majority of the left in America are social democratic not socialist.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.


The argument made throughout this thread is that policies advocated by the majority of the left in America are social democratic not socialist.





That's true. But in their stupidity they misinform the public, support socialist groups like the DSA, and risk submitting the US to socialism.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.


The argument made throughout this thread is that policies advocated by the majority of the left in America are social democratic not socialist.





That's true. But in their stupidity they misinform the public, support socialist groups like the DSA, and risk submitting the US to socialism.


In what way do they misinform the public?

I think most people understand that the US, along with almost every country, is a mixed economy.

Adopting more 'socialist' policies isn't a slippy slope into authoritarianism any more than more 'capitalist' policies means anarcho-capitalism.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.


The argument made throughout this thread is that policies advocated by the majority of the left in America are social democratic not socialist.





That's true. But in their stupidity they misinform the public, support socialist groups like the DSA, and risk submitting the US to socialism.


In what way do they misinform the public?

I think most people understand that the US, along with almost every country, is a mixed economy.

Adopting more 'socialist' policies isn't a slippy slope into authoritarianism any more than more 'capitalist' policies means anarcho-capitalism.


Social democracy is not socialism. Welfare states, social democracy, are built on a capitalist economic framework. In other words, these are policies unique to capitalism, not socialism.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

No.

But nationalization of private industry is socialism.

I know, hard to wrap your head around it, right?


So are you arguing that socalism is a process rather than a destination?

That may or may not be true but not sure it fits with arguments against socialism presented in this thread.





Socialism is an economic theory. But in practice, and wherever institutionalized, it is state totalitarianism.


The argument made throughout this thread is that policies advocated by the majority of the left in America are social democratic not socialist.





That's true. But in their stupidity they misinform the public, support socialist groups like the DSA, and risk submitting the US to socialism.


In what way do they misinform the public?

I think most people understand that the US, along with almost every country, is a mixed economy.

Adopting more 'socialist' policies isn't a slippy slope into authoritarianism any more than more 'capitalist' policies means anarcho-capitalism.


Social democracy is not socialism. Welfare states, social democracy, are built on a capitalist economic framework. In other words, these are policies unique to capitalism, not socialism.


The relationship between the socialist and capitalist parts of social democracy is more mutually interdependent than that but I agree its not socialism.

My point is it's an contradictory argument to claim that successfully social democracies are not socialist, but claim the policies of those countries are socialist therefore [insert failed socialist state of choice here] is an inevitable consequence.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




The relationship between the socialist and capitalist parts of social democracy is more mutually interdependent than that but I agree its not socialism.

My point is it's an contradictory argument to claim that successfully social democracies are not socialist, but claim the policies of those countries are socialist therefore [insert failed socialist state of choice here] is an inevitable consequence.


It's absurd that democrats in the US call themselves socialist, while advocating for welfare state policies, which relies on a capitalist economic framework. I see nothing wrong with reminding them that socialism tends towards disaster.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe
a reply to: ScepticScot




The relationship between the socialist and capitalist parts of social democracy is more mutually interdependent than that but I agree its not socialism.

My point is it's an contradictory argument to claim that successfully social democracies are not socialist, but claim the policies of those countries are socialist therefore [insert failed socialist state of choice here] is an inevitable consequence.


It's absurd that democrats in the US call themselves socialist, while advocating for welfare state policies, which relies on a capitalist economic framework. I see nothing wrong with reminding them that socialism tends towards disaster.


As posted earlier I agree the use of 'democratic socialist' as a title is inaccurate.

Modern states use a mixed economic framework. The dependence is mutual, not one way.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Tartuffe
a reply to: ScepticScot




The relationship between the socialist and capitalist parts of social democracy is more mutually interdependent than that but I agree its not socialism.

My point is it's an contradictory argument to claim that successfully social democracies are not socialist, but claim the policies of those countries are socialist therefore [insert failed socialist state of choice here] is an inevitable consequence.


It's absurd that democrats in the US call themselves socialist, while advocating for welfare state policies, which relies on a capitalist economic framework. I see nothing wrong with reminding them that socialism tends towards disaster.


As posted earlier I agree the use of 'democratic socialist' as a title is inaccurate.

Modern states use a mixed economic framework. The dependence is mutual, not one way.


Mixed as in capitalist markets with high regulation. There are mixed economies that premise their economy on socialist rather than capitalist economics, as in China and Vietnam.




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