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Cubans: Personified Warnings of Socialist Evils the Left Loves to Ignore

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posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 01:13 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: daskakik

You keep saying that socialists in America don't want socialism. That is not true. They think that the Nordic Model is socialism while giving their time, money, vote, and even protesting on behalf of CPUSA, the WSP, and others. Leftists will regularly show up in here defending socialism because they have no idea what they're talking about, not because there's something wrong with my position with regard to socialism.





The policies advocated by the mainstream left in the are broadly social democratic not socialist.

I will happily agree that the use of the name 'Democratic Socialism' is stupid, however they are not actually arguing for full fat socialism.




posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I find it interesting that your tactic here is to blame the victims of communism and socialism.

Please don't respond to me. I have little time for thoughtless gouls.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I find it interesting that your tactic here is to blame the victims of communism and socialism.

Please don't respond to me. I have little time for thoughtless gouls.


I have enjoyed watching them expose themselves vxn. I have because I can use that logic as a display of how far the logic escapes their lack of a solid fact as the basis for their point of view. So easy for fence sitters, as I once was, to see why something is wrong when they are blatantly playing propaganda.

They are trying to pull this off now with the informed watching closely. Their chances of winning of their sick game is just about done, so they double down.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
This shows how stupid this argument has become.

If none of those countries are "socialist" and that is what "socialist americans" want, then why are you comparing their ideals to "real socialist" examples like Cuba?


... That is not what SOCIALIST Americans want... Do you even comprehend what you wrote yourself?... Scandinavian countries are not socialists, but you want to claim it is what socialist Americans want?... You just wrote an oxymoron, and can't even comprehend your own absurd argument.





edit on 22-4-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

The policies advocated by the mainstream left in the are broadly social democratic not socialist.

I will happily agree that the use of the name 'Democratic Socialism' is stupid, however they are not actually arguing for full fat socialism.


Oh yeah, you mean how "socialism of the 21st century" was supposed to be different from the "old socialism", and how it was going to bring innovation, rights for everyone, blah, blahblah?...

Because old socialists, or even communists, like Bernie Sanders changed the name of the economic and political system they want implemented, it doesn't mean it will be "a different type of socialism."

To show one of the many similarities between what "progressive democrats/socialists" in the DNC want implemented I will give once again as evidence the fact that under Obama "progressive democrats/socialists" wanted to implement policies which are socialist in nature, and to this day people like Bernie Sanders, and some others have stated that free education can be paid for by the government, and then students would be forced to work for the government for free as a form of payment for education.

That is EXACTLY the same type of policy that exists in old socialist/communist countries like Cuba. Every summer children of about 11 years old are rounded up by the communist regime and are forced to work in hard labor camps picking tobacco, or some other harvests and this is how students pay for their education. You might think this is good because you have no experience whatsoever, or haven't seen in what condition children in Cuba have to work in these summer hard labor camps.



Democrats called this "compulsory/mandatory volunteerism," and although it has been dubbed as a new type of policy in fact it is an old policy which socialist and communist regimes enforce, and just like it happens under far left-wing regimes, democrats proposed that students would work for free for the government.

The following section was included in several bills that "democrats' wanted to pass.


...
Section 6104 of The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act requires that a commission be established to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”
...


There is nothing new about this type of policy, as I have explained many times in the past Cuba has that policy in place to this day.




edit on 22-4-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

edit on 22-4-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
... That is not what SOCIALIST Americans want...

It is what a lot of them say they want.


Scandinavian countries are not socialists,

I agreed.


but you want to claim it is what socialist Americans want?...

Like I said, it is what many of them say they want.


You just wrote an oxymoron, and can't even comprehend your own absurd argument.

You are the one who can't wrap his head around things not being black and white.

It has been 10 years and you just keep repeating the same "red scare" message. The further we get from the Mcarthy era the less people seem to be affected by the scaremongering.

You keep going though, you wear it well.







posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Nope... again... Scandinavian countries are NOT socialist in nature, and what "socialist Americans" want is NOT what exists in such Scandinavian nations... What socialist Americans want is socialism...

Those who claim "Denmark is a socialist country, hence socialism works" are ignoring the fact that Denmark, and other Scandinavian countries are not socialist...

These are the same type of people that in ignorance claim "the police, the firefighters, the U.S. military, the highways, etc, etc" are all socialist systems, which is false...



edit on 22-4-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Nope... again... Scandinavian countries are NOT socialist in nature

I just said I agree and you are still arguing. You have lost it.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

daskakik the disconnect here is the combative nature of the thread.

That is my fault. You have absolutely been agreeing the entire time.

I'd like to apologize to you and maybe one or two others for creating that environment in the first place. This is a contentious and emotional issue for me and (not to speak for EU) for ElectricUniverse who has a more direct link to the Cuban issue.

The point of contention I have is that you believe that US Socialists want the Nordic Model when, in fact, they want socialism and then they sell the Nordic Model to the useful idiots who believe it IS socialism.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
I just said I agree and you are still arguing. You have lost it.


You only agreed partially, but then said "it is what American socialists say they want." But how can it be what they want when it is not socialism and those far left-wing Americans are socialist and have been calling for socialism?



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

It's cool. That is why I didn't get into this thread until the previous page. I know how these types of threads go.


The point of contention I have is that you believe that US Socialists want the Nordic Model when, in fact, they want socialism and then they sell the Nordic Model to the useful idiots who believe it IS socialism.

I don't disagree with that, but it is a rather broad brush and, frankly, I don't see real socialists getting their way. Not in the US and probably not in most developed countries.

I mean, things might creep away from the center either way but not by much. That is my opinion and I understand that some people feel they have to always be on guard to keep history from repeating. I can respect that but you gotta understand that there is a gray area.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You line item argued the part I agreed with.

I already said that some have mislabeled themselves. What do you want me to do about that?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 12:55 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The policies advocated by the mainstream left in the are broadly social democratic not socialist.

I will happily agree that the use of the name 'Democratic Socialism' is stupid, however they are not actually arguing for full fat socialism.


Oh yeah, you mean how "socialism of the 21st century" was supposed to be different from the "old socialism", and how it was going to bring innovation, rights for everyone, blah, blahblah?...

Because old socialists, or even communists, like Bernie Sanders changed the name of the economic and political system they want implemented, it doesn't mean it will be "a different type of socialism."

To show one of the many similarities between what "progressive democrats/socialists" in the DNC want implemented I will give once again as evidence the fact that under Obama "progressive democrats/socialists" wanted to implement policies which are socialist in nature, and to this day people like Bernie Sanders, and some others have stated that free education can be paid for by the government, and then students would be forced to work for the government for free as a form of payment for education.

That is EXACTLY the same type of policy that exists in old socialist/communist countries like Cuba. Every summer children of about 11 years old are rounded up by the communist regime and are forced to work in hard labor camps picking tobacco, or some other harvests and this is how students pay for their education. You might think this is good because you have no experience whatsoever, or haven't seen in what condition children in Cuba have to work in these summer hard labor camps.



Democrats called this "compulsory/mandatory volunteerism," and although it has been dubbed as a new type of policy in fact it is an old policy which socialist and communist regimes enforce, and just like it happens under far left-wing regimes, democrats proposed that students would work for free for the government.

The following section was included in several bills that "democrats' wanted to pass.


...
Section 6104 of The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act requires that a commission be established to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”
...


There is nothing new about this type of policy, as I have explained many times in the past Cuba has that policy in place to this day.





This has am ready been covered multiple times.

The policies advocated are more Social Democratic in nature as have been used successfully in North European countries for decades.

Show me where any mainstream politician in The US is arguing for a planned economy or mass nationalisation of industry?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: odzeandennz

eh add the UK in there its a bit of a #hole now at least



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Bernie Sanders.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot

Bernie Sanders.


Really he is proposing nationalizing industry and running a command economy.

Can you link to that part of his platform?



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot



He was asked about it and didn't seem to change his mind from his position in the 70s where he regularly made the case for nationalization of major industries.

In fact all he did was segway into free school/free healthcare/bag of goodies talk.

"I said what I said" -Bernie Sanders.

Keep sticking up for limousine socialists.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

dont those scandanavian countries only do well because they created oil funds for the people ?
which lead to vast wealth for the people later on!

anyway here is an article highlighting why the model isnt perfect
why scandinavia is not the model for global prosperity we should all pursue



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

dont those scandanavian countries only do well because they created oil funds for the people ?
which lead to vast wealth for the people later on!

anyway here is an article highlighting why the model isnt perfect
why scandinavia is not the model for global prosperity we should all pursue



Only Norway has much in the way of oil.



posted on Apr, 23 2019 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ScepticScot



He was asked about it and didn't seem to change his mind from his position in the 70s where he regularly made the case for nationalization of major industries.

In fact all he did was segway into free school/free healthcare/bag of goodies talk.

"I said what I said" -Bernie Sanders.

Keep sticking up for limousine socialists.


So no it's not part of his platform then.

Since I haven't actually posted support for any politician on this thread you 'Sticking up for limousine socialists' comment is just nonsense.




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