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Cubans: Personified Warnings of Socialist Evils the Left Loves to Ignore

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posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: alldaylong

Bernie will never be president.




posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Here's the beauty of what those of us who don't like either socialism or communism want:

We want a system where collectivists like yourselves can go off on your own and form your own little communes to care for each other perfectly communally, pooling all resources.

And at the same time, we stay outside your systems and live our lives a we choose creating our capitalist free market system with a constitutional republic that allows you to have your communes.

What you guys want is to force everyone into your system through force of government. None can escape it. You guys are so convinced it's the only way to be that you'll compel us all. You like to say it's for our own good, but what you're really all worried about is that those of us who stand to lose will opt out, and some of you would have to take up the slack for the rest of your system, so you instead force all to go along.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Here is what... You want to claim that words have no meaning, and you are making up crap in your own attempt at changing the meaning of words which "you" want to change. If "you have something better to do" then stop responding altogether...



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

Denmark is part of Scandinavia so not sure what you mean by your first point.

Denmark has the highest rate of personal debt but it also has one of the highest levels of personal savings. Net assets are positive

It has the highest rate of cancer diagnosis in the works largely because of its excellent health care system which has a very high rate of detection.

Denmark, and other Scandinavian countries, are consistently rated as amongst the best countries in the world to live.


Yet as it has been proven several times none of those countries is "socialist." Not one of them. Capitalism is what made Scandinavian countries successful.


...
"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.
...


Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist

The model of Denmark, or other Scandinavian countries will not work in a nation as big as the U.S. But in Denmark the state does not own the means of production.


...
The answer is a society where the means of production—factories, mines, railroads, the energy sources, all things used to create new wealth—are owned publicly, not privately. And that means socialism—a society where private property has been abolished.
...

www.workers.org...

Despite the continued lies from socialists and communists, the people NEVER own or control the means of production. Public property is always owned and controlled by the state, and under socialism/communism the state owns it all.




edit on 21-4-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Yet as it has been proven several times none of those countries is "socialist." Not one of them.

This shows how stupid this argument has become.

If none of those countries are "socialist" and that is what "socialist americans" want, then why are you comparing their ideals to "real socialist" examples like Cuba?



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Because what they want is socialism, the destruction of private property, ceding national sovereignty to global authority, and to nationalize as much industry as they can get away with.

They offer things like "free" healthcare and "free" education as a carrot on a stick.

There is a price to he paid far beyond money for the control they wish to have in our lives.

Welfarism is not socialism. That doesn't mean that welfarism isn't used as a means to an end.
edit on 21 4 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Meh, I hear them say they want the Nordic model more than anything and ElectricUniverse says that isn't socialism so duke it out with him.

I'm just pointing out the flaw in logic in that post in regards to the OP.


edit on 21-4-2019 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: daskakik




Meh, I hear them say they want the Nordic model more than anything and ElectricUniverse says that isn't socialism so duke it out with him.


Quite frankly, if you're not interested in defending your position then please don't post.




I'm just pointing out the flaw in logic in that post in regards to the OP.


The "Nordic model" is welfarism in a market economy. Socialism precludes the existence of a market economy. The flaw here is the fact that you think socialism means a list of government services-as-charity like nearly every other leftist in this thread.
edit on 21 4 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

My position is simple. Socialists in America want the Nordic Model > The Nordic Model isn't socialism > Socialists in America are mislabeled.

You and EU love to go on about socialism in Cuba and stuff but it isn't what many are actually asking for. You are arguing over a label and what it means to you and what it means to "them".

And please don't include me in either of those two groups. I am not cheering for either side.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: daskakik




Socialists in America want the Nordic Model


Socialists in America want socialism.

Good lord.




You and EU love to go on about socialism in Cuba and stuff but it isn't what many are actually asking for.


Go read a dictionary, specifically with regard to the definition of socialism, and then go read up on the Socialist Party USA platform and get back to me.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Like I said earlier, I hear many of them say they want the Nordic model. Maybe they don't know that that isn't socialism? Just because a party lays out a platform doesn't mean every follower agrees with the entire platform.

Don't know what else to say. I thought it was simple enough to follow. I guess not.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Here, you should at least know what you're talking about:
The Nordic Model


The Nordic model refers to the economic and social policies common to the Nordic countries. This includes a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level with a high percentage of the workforce unionised while being based on the economic foundations of free market capitalism.


It's welfarism funded by capitalism. This is NOT socialism.

Socialism is the seizing and control of the means of production and the profits thereof for the collective of society. In such a society there are no private ventures.

There are mixed socialist societies like the People's Republic of China. This form of socialism relies on the fruits of private industry to survive on the near slave labor of the general workforce. The Elite of the People's Republic are typically those who serve the interests of the Communist Party of China. These are the people most responsible for the environmental damage and slave labor conditions faced by the Chinese today. These people are so arrogant that they feel comfortable enough to make grand declarations on how much to enslave the workers.

Your "position" is based on nothing but opinion and very little research. Let me know how the Nordic Model works in nations with 350 million people made up of varying demographics, productive economic means, resources, and cultures.
edit on 21 4 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: projectvxn

Like I said earlier, I hear many of them say they want the Nordic model. Maybe they don't know that that isn't socialism? Just because a party lays out a platform doesn't mean every follower agrees with the entire platform.

Don't know what else to say. I thought it was simple enough to follow. I guess not.


I think leftists in this thread like many right wingers don't know how to differentiate what is and isn't socialism. The reason this is so is that a socialist economy encompasses all aspects of economic activity. This includes welfare programs, healthcare, education, and utilities.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
Here, you should at least know what you're talking about:

I already know. That is why I said that "socialists" asking for the Nordic model are mislabeled.


Your "position" is based on nothing but opinion and very little research.

My position is about the progress of this thread and how people are in here arguing two different things with the same label.


Let me know how the Nordic Model works in nations with 350 million people made up of varying demographics, productive economic means, resources, and cultures.

Why would I do that? I'm not the one asking for it.



edit on 21-4-2019 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

You keep saying that socialists in America don't want socialism. That is not true. They think that the Nordic Model is socialism while giving their time, money, vote, and even protesting on behalf of CPUSA, the WSP, and others. Leftists will regularly show up in here defending socialism because they have no idea what they're talking about, not because there's something wrong with my position with regard to socialism.




edit on 21 4 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

You are right, they are wrong. Makes no difference to my point because in the end it is an argument about two different things with the same label.



edit on 21-4-2019 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




My mother and father were children when the revolution happened. Your ignorance betrays your pseudointellectual diatribe.

Really, I could have sworn you said your family owned a ranch or some such during it all. But I suppose could have been grandparents, you did not specify this, you should have.

So if what you say is true, that would make a whole generation of people who did not see the obvious and fell for what amounts to a scam. And you all after all that time, you come away. Not that people can make up anything and say anything and do the oposite, I mean I suppose the fact the obvious part that everything the guy owned and got was from either Chinese, or European sources, and its likely that the CIA themselves cut his check.

Even the clothes on his back and the weapons of his men were russian made. But somehow after all that and so many years. Your biggest take away from that is not that people can bull# and calude and use any means and ideology to gain power. But that a word, "socialism" that they fell for, is bad.

And yes it is a word, and nothing less, a word that has many interpretations and meaning, like any other word. And also many believes.

Interesting. I see you have thought very little on this, I would say you have put zero thought into why all that happened just magically happened to happen. And now I am a pseduointelectual. Why I would ask. But I can guess quite accurately. Is it that vid on Marcus Aurelius? Did it sound a bit presumptuous, I mean after all he was only one guy, who lead the whole Roman Empire at his time, and likely expanded it farther and dealt with more peoples and groups in a time were hanging people on a cross was just considered good taste, and rode that horse and navigated those machination better then the emperors that came before him, and from him on it was just a slow downhill for those chumps.

So ya, I think the fact that he just happened to mention that words have little meaning and one should look behind them and not at them. So ya, bro, I think you dont know half as much as you seem to think you do. But hey if you dont like that psedointelctual stuff.

Here's another one, its called Hanlins Razor, and it says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Sounds cool doesnt it? Like totally. Take it as you will.



A word didn't impoverish and kill millions. A system enforced by people did that. That system is called socialism.

You dont say! Thats because its just a word the people that used and created that system used. Simply because the chumps believed the # they were spewing. So basically all those people died, well because they believed in the wrong thing. After all isnt Castro brother or something now in charge, pretty sure that after he croaks it would be Castros second cousin on his aunts side that takes over, or who knows. Billy bob bush castro or whoever.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
What the funk are you talking about?

You must have me confused with somebody else, there likely is some other Gladofwarthethird around here or something. Nothing that you said made any sense to me.

I have no use for socialism or capitalism, or even republican or democrats for that matter. Thats just for you all, so you can play your games. Beyond that and that its funny. I dont think it will ever achieve anything. And so far all you people ever do is just talk. Yada yada yada. Some years ago it was about Obama, oh the rightys were going at it. Obama this Obama that none stop.

One time some years ago, I drooped my toast on the ground because it was to hot. I blamed Obama on that, just to see how it felt. And it felt good. And now a days, oh Trump this and Trump that that the lefties go at it none stop. While personally I miss the days when people were ripping on Ross Perot, and not only that, the goofy guy was better then both Obama and Trump by miles. I miss those days. And I can only wonder what the next term election will bring, lolz a plenty.

So ya, as you can see. I can only guess what your talking about now.But! I can guess pretty accurately and correctly. I just choose not to.



posted on Apr, 21 2019 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


Here is what... You want to claim that words have no meaning, and you are making up crap in your own attempt at changing the meaning of words which "you" want to change. If "you have something better to do" then stop responding altogether...


Hmm! You know what. Your right. I should have said they have little to no meaning... To me.

But if you or your grandparents fell for Castro and corp. Well clearly you are very impressionable by words. I find that more fascinating then this socialist and capitalist stuff which is kind of well, been done before. It is sort of fascinating, but finding people that are so impressionable by words, well lift any rock and you find those.

So ya your right it is pointless.

And besides it does not take that long to respond to these posts, and there is always other things to do. Can you guys keep your posts short, you would help in not wasting to much time on such things.

Bye.



posted on Apr, 22 2019 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Denmark is part of Scandinavia so not sure what you mean by your first point.

Denmark has the highest rate of personal debt but it also has one of the highest levels of personal savings. Net assets are positive

It has the highest rate of cancer diagnosis in the works largely because of its excellent health care system which has a very high rate of detection.

Denmark, and other Scandinavian countries, are consistently rated as amongst the best countries in the world to live.


Yet as it has been proven several times none of those countries is "socialist." Not one of them. Capitalism is what made Scandinavian countries successful.


...
"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.
...


Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist

The model of Denmark, or other Scandinavian countries will not work in a nation as big as the U.S. But in Denmark the state does not own the means of production.


...
The answer is a society where the means of production—factories, mines, railroads, the energy sources, all things used to create new wealth—are owned publicly, not privately. And that means socialism—a society where private property has been abolished.
...

www.workers.org...

Despite the continued lies from socialists and communists, the people NEVER own or control the means of production. Public property is always owned and controlled by the state, and under socialism/communism the state owns it all.





As per my first post on this threat , Denmark is broadly a social democracy, the model the 'left' in the US seems to want to emulate.

I haven't seen any serious US politician or commentator suggest the US should adopt the policies of communist era Albania.

There is absolutely no reason why population size would be barrier.




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