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No Spin mueller report discussion?

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posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme


( waiting for someone...... to leave his current job so they can prosecute him. )


....wait a second, are you saying that they're going to prosecute president Trump after he leaves office?




posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 05:58 PM
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This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!


All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

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posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: carewemust

Ha ha..
This party is only just beginning.

Like trump himself said.



He's F**ked !


I remember when you said just wait until the report comes out. Well it has and nothing burger for you. Two years with the investigative power of the DOJ and nothing to move on. Must be disappointing. It’s all over you just have not realized it yet. Trump for four more years!



posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: carewemust

Ha ha..
This party is only just beginning.

Like trump himself said.



He's F**ked !


I remember when you said just wait until the report comes out. Well it has and nothing burger for you. Two years with the investigative power of the DOJ and nothing to move on. Must be disappointing. It’s all over you just have not realized it yet. Trump for four more years!



MSNBC has got 'em all lathered up again.

Didn't take them long to reel them back in.

It's a lot like those battered wives that keep going back to their abusive husband after each new beating.
edit on 19-4-2019 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)


SM2

posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 06:44 PM
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Every lawyer I know, has at some point made the remark...."ya know, you can indite a ham sandwich, if you really want to" so, with that said....2 years, $30million and still couldnt indite him.....seems like there is absolutely nothing there. Regardless of how you want things to go, or how creative you get in his choice of vocabulary, there is nothing there. If there was even a shred, there would have been charges recommended. Furthermore, since there was no crime..remember kids, collusion is not a crime, nowhere in the US criminal code is it mentioned, which is why Mueller went with conspiracy. How can one obstruct justice, if no crime was committed? There has to be charges of a crime, or at least an indictment of an individual before one can obstruct justice.



posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: carewemust

Ha ha..
This party is only just beginning.

Like trump himself said.



He's F**ked !


Yeah he is F**ked.
He is F**ked that he has to listen to the deranged Leftists moan and cry for his entire 2nd term too.



posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: amazing


Thanks for your reply, but not sure how you think my OP was extreme spin? I don't watch any news shows so not sure how I can be parroting CNN.

Are you saying you're actually Anderson Cooper? If so, you really should watch your own show.

Every word of your OP sounded identical to what CNN/MSNBC/NBC etc. says every day all day.


Isn't it reasonable to think that the DOJ and FBI aren't corrupt...and that an investigation from the DOJ with FBI guy would be a good investigation? I don't mind the redaction's, I just found it weird that people didn't want hte report released...like there was something to hide, that's why I'm glad it's been released.

Yes, that is a reasonable thing to talk about. However, considering that this assumed-uncorrupt FBI/DoJ just did a three year investigation and found no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, your own assumption just exonerated Trump.

I do not remember anyone stating they did not want the Mueller investigation report released, especially not Barr. All he did was what was required by law: he submitted a summary of the findings, authored with the full cooperation of Mueller himself, to Congress within days of the completion. This summary was in process before the investigation was completed, according to Barr's own testimony, so it could be quickly released. He then went through a redaction process to redact sensitive information from 400 pages of report, as required by law, and released the report.

Barr stated his intention to release the redacted report in full when he released the summary. It simply takes time to redact that many pages. The question I have is how long did it take Mueller to write 400 pages of the report, and how long before the investigation officially ended was he aware that there was no collusion? It took Barr a month to redact it; it is reasonable to expect it took much longer to write it.


and Barr does seem to be in Trump's Corner as apposed to an impartial AG.

What has he done to give that impression? That's my question. Name one action Barr has taken as AG that indicated his partisanship? He certainly does work for President Trump, as has every AG since the very first one worked for the President in power at the time. That's what the AG does. I fail to see how accepting the position makes him overly biased toward Trump?

What I see is someone who is performing their duties according to the law and answering questions as honestly as they can considering their position as having access to classified data. What the MSM sees, apparently, is someone who will not break the law to try and embarrass the President of the United States to further their agenda.


That's not spin...that's what I'm thinking without more information and why i put forth a thread for discussion.

Spin is making assumptions and putting forth information that is incomplete or out of context to put forth an incorrect perception of said events. That is exactly what you are doing. As an example, when Tucker Carlson tries to claim his guest is taking guns from private citizens in Puerto Rico, when in actuality the law being used allows forced purchase of weapons from weaponry dealers during an emergency, that is spin... and in that example, it was hilarious watching him get his butt handed to him!

Your spin is making assumptions that Barr has acted improperly for no other reason than the Mueller report gave no evidence sufficient to indicate any crime, and especially since the original crime Trump was accused of obstructing justice concerning never happened. Since there was no collusion, the only actual justice in this case would be exoneration... did Trump obstruct his own exoneration? No, he stated his innocence. Exactly how is that illegal in any way?


It almost seems like you don't want to find the truth or have a logical discussion with someone that might not agree with all of your fox news talking points?

The truth is there, in the report. You can read it yourself (minus redactions). The requirement is for the report to be submitted to Congress, but Barr, in the weirdest attempt to cover up anything I have ever seen, has released it to everyone.

As to the Fox comment... I'm sure they appreciate you explaining to everyone that the actual facts are their 'talking points.' I consider that much more journalistic than CNN's talking points, which are mostly lies and omissions. I would disagree with you that Fox is that good at reporting actual news, however. They simply lean Republican, whereas the rest of the MSM leans Democrat.

Me? I lean for me. I'm an Independent conservative with liberal leanings. I'd bet good money you are a Democrat.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: RazorV66

Stop.... the prosecutions that are going to take place after he is out of office will make all their heads spin.
There is no way that he wont be prosecuted once he is free to be.
Mueller layed out a plan of action. He gave them everything they need and said I cant do this but we needed to preserve this evidence for when it can be used. PRESERVE for what?
Give them time. Congress are all downloading the report and reading it while on Easter vacay. By the time they get back they will all be ready to move.
Its all there. Everything they need to take him down.
The Barr Report not withstanding LOL.



posted on Apr, 19 2019 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

You need to read the whole report.



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 01:12 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

I am. So far nothing is standing out, except how many ongoing investigations there still are ("Harm Ongoing Matter" redactions). Some people lied to the FBI during the investigation (we knew that), and Russia wanted Trump or Bernie (I bet you missed that part) instead of Clinton. Oh, and they tried to set up meetings with Trump and his campaign people, but never succeeded.

The dates go back farther than I realized. There are references to as early as 2014. I forget, was Donald Trump the President in 2014?

For those who want to read it:
www.justice.gov... (YUGE .pdf file, 448 pages)

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 01:35 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme


Stop.... the prosecutions that are going to take place after he is out of office will make all their heads spin.

"THIS is CNN...

Today's breaking news on this 23rd day of July, 2134... President Robert Trump III is again denying collusion with Russian agencies by his great-great-great-great-grandfather, former President Donald Trump. Congressional Democrats have weighed in on the matter explaining that this is exactly what a guilty party would say, and they intend to get to the bottom of former President Trump's illegal activities.

Several excavation contractors have offered to dig up the grave of the former President to extract DNA evidence. A handful of scientists are stating that such an action would be useless, since the DNA has likely deteriorated in the 99 years since his death. Proponents argue that it will save money to excavate him now instead of later when his body is incarcerated for crimes revealed by the latest investigation.

Senator Dracule Putin (D-CA) stated at a press conference this morning that "just because we haven't found anything to charge Donald Trump with, it doesn't mean we won't!"

In other news, a group of protestors are gathering around the White House to protest the refusal of the US to sign on to the latest UN Treaty to prevent Climate Change. According to anonymous sources, the planet has 12 years left before the carbon dioxide concentration causes irreversible damage.
"

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 02:40 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




I am also appalled that, among other things, fellow citizens working in a campaign for president welcomed help from Russia — including information that had been illegally obtained; that none of them acted to inform American law enforcement; and that the campaign chairman was actively promoting Russian interests in Ukraine,” he went on to say.


Full story

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Romney is the closet to a sane and sensible stance on the Russia collusion saga. Trump's presidential campaign did act against the interests of their country. Standalone, this was ethically terrible, and in a "normal" political cycle, it would ensure a one term presidency. Two occurrences have saved Trump and his son from national disgrace.

Firstly, the Hillary Clinton purchased a false Trump dossier from the Russians. Yes, the Clinton campaign did exceedingly worse than anything the Trump campaign is proven to have undertaken.

Secondly, Trump's detractors in propaganda outlets (MSNBC, CNN and co) peddled the vast Russia- Trump collusion conspiracy. Instead of just receiving political intel from the Russians, Trump was a Russian agent or he conspired (directly) with Putin to defeat Hillary Clinton. Trump's deranged detractors lapped up this insane conspiracy with religious zeal. Bizarrely, I have witnessed Trump's vindication. Trump, the blend of Jacksonian tendencies, and MacArthur's megalomania has stood down his detractors and increased his chances of re-election in 2020.

Lastly, I was disgusted by how Trump's media surrogates defended his actions, playing lapdog to Putin was the low point of his presidency. Yet Hannity and Trump's other media surrogates rightfully (Trump's son's meeting the alleged Russians aside) rightfully pointed out the false nature of the Trump - Russia conspiracy. So Trump's detractors have validated his media surrogates. This is one of the most remarkably unintentional political backfire or side effect to take place in the last 30 years.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



edit on 20-4-2019 by xpert11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 03:05 AM
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a reply to: xpert11

One thing I have noticed above all else in American politics, over the many races I watched intently, is that good guys finish last. Always. Without exception. The only possible way to attain elected office is to point out, ad naueseum, one's accomplishments and visions while simultaneously tearing down one's opponent. There is no other way to attain office.

Therefore, anyone who wishes to do good things for America must also be willing to 'play dirty' in order to get the opportunity. For decades, I have watched and heard people complaining that we never get a good choice between candidates. That's because we refuse to vote for any good choice that comes along, because the ones who are in it for good are typically unwilling to engage in the kind of mud-slinging necessary to win office.

We have seen someone in office, for the first time in my memory, that has actually kept campaign promises. I consider that a very good thing for the country. However, had he ran a campaign similar to Ben Carson, who would have likely made a much more reserved and tough President, Donald Trump would still be playing his real-life game of Monopoly. Of course he placed his candidacy ahead of everything else, because the alternative was to refuse to even try to win.

As far as him being an asset of the Russians, however, a three-year investigation by a once-celebrated investigator who was given everything he asked for to find something derogatory on Donald Trump disagrees with you, as do I. Did Trump's campaign respond to offers of damaging information on Hillary? Yes! Why wouldn't they? Hillary was busy making up as much dirt as she could on Trump. But when it came down to actually dealing with Russian interests, the Trump campaign said "no." That is not just my conclusion; it is the Honorable Robert Mueller's conclusion.

I also fail to see how one can honestly be "disgusted by how Trump's media surrogates defended his actions." Why would someone not celebrate a legal victory that cleared the President of wrongdoing? The alternative is to have a President that is guilty of being a Russian asset, a traitor if you will. Is that truly less disgusting than finding out that the President is not a Russian asset?

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 04:23 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck

One thing I have noticed above all else in American politics, over the many races I watched intently, is that good guys finish last. Always. Without exception. The only possible way to attain elected office is to point out, ad naueseum, one's accomplishments and visions while simultaneously tearing down one's opponent. There is no other way to attain office.

Therefore, anyone who wishes to do good things for America must also be willing to 'play dirty' in order to get the opportunity. For decades, I have watched and heard people complaining that we never get a good choice between candidates. That's because we refuse to vote for any good choice that comes along, because the ones who are in it for good are typically unwilling to engage in the kind of mud-slinging necessary to win office.


The 1988 Bush vs Dukakis presidential race vindicates your point. However, there is no evidence either campaign had any contact with the Soviet intelligence community, or looked to fabricate such a meeting.




We have seen someone in office, for the first time in my memory, that has actually kept campaign promises. I consider that a very good thing for the country. However, had he ran a campaign similar to Ben Carson, who would have likely made a much more reserved and tough President, Donald Trump would still be playing his real-life game of Monopoly. Of course he placed his candidacy ahead of everything else, because the alternative was to refuse to even try to win.


Our societies are now so dumbed down, there are large aspects of our populations can't comprehend why Trump won the 2016 presidential election. The majority of the reasons behind Trump's election falls beyond the scope of this topic. But, symptoms of why people completely lost faith in Washington D.C. are present in the Trump - Russia conspiracy hoax.

John Brennan, the Homer Simpson of the U.S. intelligence community and former CIA director, spend hours on propaganda outlets peddling a hoax. This is hardly the way to maintain or restore the public's confidence in the CIA.

Putin and his intelligence community set out to destroy American nation unity. Thanks to the unhinged nature of Trump's detractors, their efforts are more successful than they ever dreamed.


As far as him being an asset of the Russians, however, a three-year investigation by a once-celebrated investigator who was given everything he asked for to find something derogatory on Donald Trump disagrees with you, as do I. Did Trump's campaign respond to offers of damaging information on Hillary? Yes! Why wouldn't they? Hillary was busy making up as much dirt as she could on Trump. But when it came down to actually dealing with Russian interests, the Trump campaign said "no." That is not just my conclusion; it is the Honorable Robert Mueller's conclusion.


The key point is the Trump campaign didn't distinguish the source of the political dirt. In political and international relations realism, the United States of America and Russian interests rarely overlap. Only the naive or deluded members of a (U.S.) presidential campaign would not avoid meeting with anybody connected with Russia. Clearly, an individual go act in a unethical manner and against their countries interests without breaking the law. Nor is this a new revelation in any manner.




I also fail to see how one can honestly be "disgusted by how Trump's media surrogates defended his actions." Why would someone not celebrate a legal victory that cleared the President of wrongdoing? The alternative is to have a President that is guilty of being a Russian asset, a traitor if you will. Is that truly less disgusting than finding out that the President is not a Russian asset?


I was disgusted by how Trump's media surrogates defended his action after his summit with Putin. Now this action hasn't discredited Trump's media surrogates. Instead, the insane nature of anti Trump propaganda swamped all before it. Ironically, Trump's media surrogates (correctly) defended him against ludicrous conspiracy allegations. Ironically, the same media personalities who defended Trump acting as Putin's lapdog are now vindicated for defending Trump.

There is nothing to celebrate. Most of them remain in denial, but only the people who are educated by CNN and MSNBC are celebrating the equivalent of the Mueller clearing the Easter Bunny of murder allegations.
edit on 20-4-2019 by xpert11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 05:19 AM
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a reply to: xpert11


Our societies are now so dumbed down, there are large aspects of our populations can't comprehend why Trump won the 2016 presidential election. The majority of the reasons behind Trump's election falls beyond the scope of this topic. But, symptoms of why people completely lost faith in Washington D.C. are present in the Trump - Russia conspiracy hoax.

John Brennan, the Homer Simpson of the U.S. intelligence community and former CIA director, spend hours on propaganda outlets peddling a hoax. This is hardly the way to maintain or restore the public's confidence in the CIA.

That is the sad truth. A lie repeated often enough does not becomes the truth, but it does become the popular opinion.


Putin and his intelligence community set out to destroy American nation unity. Thanks to the unhinged nature of Trump;s detractors, their efforts are more successful than they ever dreamed.

Another sad truth. We are now a nation divided over who does and does not hate the President.

Even worse, IMO, is the fact that we are actually experiencing an attempt at a bloodless coup. Donald Trump was duly and fairly elected to the office of President; that is a fact and thus far I have not heard anyone successfully dispute that truth. The only responses have been that they do not agree with the election process that has weathered over 200 years of prosperity.

Yet, we have a substantial number of Trump detractors who have decided they know better than the electorate, and thus they have placed themselves in a position of being superior to those they disagree with. I wonder what their response would be if they were told who to vote for or, if they refused, they had to watch others overturn their vote because of a difference of opinion? We would be inundated with cries of the country no longer being representative of the people! Yet, here they are, doing just that. I wonder if the days of "one person, one vote" are slipping away forever.


The key point is the Trump campaign didn't distinguish the source of the political dirt.

According to the report, they apparently did. Recall my point that even though they were open to dirt on their opponent, they did not have successful meetings with anyone in the Russian government to obtain such. I would bet money that this was not due to the Russians' lack of trying.


I was disgusted by how Trump's media surrogates defended his action after his summit with Putin. Now this action hasn't discredited Trump's media surrogates. Instead, the insane nature of anti Trump propaganda swamped all before it.

It would be quite the war-mongering position to not hold a summit with the leader of Russia. It would also be quite foolhardy to use such an opportunity to destroy any possibility of peaceful relations. Any decent negotiator will try compliments when possible, as they are typically more successful. Tell me, are you more likely to agree with someone who is being nice to you, or with someone who is angry and hateful toward you? That's not being a 'lapdog'; it is attempting diplomacy. The actions Trump has taken since speak much louder than his words: his attempts to get Germany to buy oil from Western nations instead of Russia, his work with Saudi Arabia and his push for US energy independence to drive down oil prices and thereby slow the Russian economy, and his strikes on Russia allies in the Middle East all speak against any undue influence from Putin.


There is nothing to celebrate. Most of them remain in denial, but only the people who are educated by CNN and MSNBC are celebrating the equivalent of the Mueller clearing the Easter Bunny of murder allegations.

That is quite the confusing statement. CNN, MSNBC, and the majority of the MSM are far from celebrating... they are literally trying to deny the conclusions in the report in favor of more allegations. The only ones celebrating are those who are happy that our President is not a Russian agent, and that certainly does not include the MSM. They are renewing calls for impeachment... apparently for the "high crime and misdemeanor" of being elected without permission.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 06:40 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
I don't oppose Trump meeting with Putin. I also give Trump credit for calling out Germany's moving towards Russian energy dependency. I do oppose Trump's 1930's style naivete towards authoritarianism. Trump's personality is a greater force than historical naivety. (The reasons for former Sec of Defence Mattis' resignation are also worth noting ). In short, Trump's egoistical personality overrides his advisors ability to formulate sound policy options for his decision making process. This is the best answer I can give without going off topic.

None of this changes the fact Trump is the legitimately elected president of the United States of America.

If the FBI suspected Russian agents of trying to contact or take part in the Trump campaign, why didn't they follow through on their obligation to inform Trump? The FBI is guilty of gross professional and ethical misconduct, they deliberately blurred the lines between criminal and counter intelligence investigations. The FBI provided reasons to support Trump's drain the swamp mantra [!]

In the first place, it is ill-logical to celebrate a conspiracy that never took place. The same goes for the increasing disconnect between the Trump- Russia collusion religious followers and reality.


edit on 20-4-2019 by xpert11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-4-2019 by xpert11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: RazorV66

Stop.... the prosecutions that are going to take place after he is out of office will make all their heads spin.
There is no way that he wont be prosecuted once he is free to be.
Mueller layed out a plan of action. He gave them everything they need and said I cant do this but we needed to preserve this evidence for when it can be used. PRESERVE for what?
Give them time. Congress are all downloading the report and reading it while on Easter vacay. By the time they get back they will all be ready to move.
Its all there. Everything they need to take him down.
The Barr Report not withstanding LOL.


None of that is going to happen and you have no source to back up any of it.

What you will do is spam the thread and try to derail it.

Lol



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: vinifalou

originally posted by: amazing

1. Why wouldn't we/you want the full Mueller report released to the public?



Because since we're talking about a criminal investigation still going on, why would anyone want to release the details of this to the people being investigated?

So they can destroy evidences? Again?


This is exactly why the full report no redactions is wanted - to obstruct ongoing investigations, grand jury information, pending indictments. NATSEC doesn't play well in public either - except there weren't any national security issues, just the use of NATSEC resources and methods to frame a narrative.

ganjoa



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: amazing
I don't mind the redaction's, I just found it weird that people didn't want hte report released...like there was something to hide


first off, who didn't want it released? Please cite a source to back that up, then we can find out what else you think you know, but may not.



posted on Apr, 20 2019 @ 07:36 AM
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We all know for sure who didnt want it released fully.

For 3 years now people have been hiding behind a secret report and throwing unproven accusations around.

Now that the secret report is out they have nothing left. So they want to keep a few things secret so they can continue to accuse.

Just look at this thread. We have people saying that Trump is now going to be arrested the day after his second term because of some secrets that only they know about. They cant provide proof, of course, but they know.

It's silly really....

Lol




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