Notre Dame: An Omen - and why I think it's almost a prophetic event ...

a reply to: Raggedyman

Few posts back you complained about losing money, wasn’t me

Show me where - should be easy to quote.

So again you've been caught misrepresenting.

I don’t believe in mass conversions by Catholics, you are talking at me not to me. No thanks, I won’t justify the Catholic Church in South America and there deplorable actions.

I never said you did
Again you' re reading what you want into sentences. Quote me or grow up

a reply to: KansasGirl
I'll answer in parts if I may

Jupiter became Jehovah,

www.swedenborgstudy.com...

but directly from the Hebrew, through the Phoenicians,—as, for instance, Helios from "El," Apollo from "Habaal," Astarte from "Ashtoreth," Bacchus from "Ichus," Adonis from "Adonai," etc. And in the Assyro-Babylonian Pantheon we find as the supreme god "Era" or "Hea," who under the name of "Iva" is represented as holding a sheaf of thunderbolts. It seems more likely, therefore, that Jupiter or Jove-pater was derived from Iva-pater, (Jehovah, the father), rather than from Dyaus. And it is also admitted by the philologists that the Latin Jove in the more ancient Umbrian dialect is Iuve, which is almost identical with the sacred Hebrew name.

- the latest evidence suggests that the old temples were added to not necessarily smashed

pagan sites were converted to Christian sites."

www.forbes.com...

In a new article in the Journal of Late Antiquity, ancient historian Feyo Schuddeboom argues that while the conversion of pagan temples into churches "has traditionally been explained as a symbol of Christian triumph over pagan religions", we should perhaps begin to see these changes to temples as more pragmatic. Put simply: Why smash when you can renovate?

The image of incensed early Christian mobs destroying Greco-Roman temples comes in part from the early modern period. Back in the late 18th century, armchair historian Edward Gibbon provided a view of temple destruction that had lasting repercussions. In his epic work, History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire he described the tearing down of the Serapeum in Alexandria as illustrative of the empire as a whole. He also described it as a direct assault on Roman idolatry: "The compositions of ancient genius, so many of which have irretrievably perished, might surely have bee

a reply to: KansasGirl

So, what is "polemic?". Not the word "polemos," but the word YOU USED, "polemic." In your own words, what is it?

these were my words for context

was the idea of the divinity of the Trinity. Much deliberation and polemic went into deciding whether to include that as it was of pagan origin

]

These are wiki words that I traditionally use when describing political or religious debating


wiki
What is an example of polemic?

What is an example of polemic? Polemic is a controversy, debate or dispute, or a person who is inclined to argue. A written attack on a political decision is an example of a polemic. A person who argues about science or religion or about how science and religion intersect is an example of a polemic.

Recovered Catholic here. I can't help but think there's some sort of symbolism in the statues of the apostles being decapitated before the fire even started... www.pbs.org...

a reply to: KansasGirl

Far be it from me to try to break a persons faith by spreading sources and interpretations that don't stand up to more rigorous study.

I too was christened christian at infanthood. I converted to Christianity when feeling the power in a Pentecostal Church. "Born again' if you like.

Then I moved back to traditional Anglican before taking a "sabbatical" from the Hebrew god. Through those periods I did study the bible "in" bible class under those conditions. But I also bought many books by Christian philosophers and exegetical books on Daniel and more importantly some early 20th century encypledia on teh early Church 0-400 AD.

Later when the internet came along a whole new world of information was available not easily accessible previously. We're talking before Wikipedia.

Comparative religion, etymology and how cultures & religion spread were some of my readings.

Speaking of "events" like you, I too had them. Some were "spiritual" for the helping me; others were tricksters.

There is an underlying force that has shaped "religious" teachings lately into monotheism from animism and polytheism. Likewise that force helps keep society resetting every so often. Cyclical growth and then sudden crashing where whole cultures seem to vanish into thin air - to put into simple words: "keeping man dumbed down"

The priests and gatekeepers of knowledge do the dirty work of holding onto knowledge for power but they also have deluded themselves into thinking they can control and rise above their "revelation " as in their eyes they are doing it for the "greater good" in keeping society in check ( whilst amassing power * wealth )

This force goes back to antiquity and stronger than, but can be described as, the Platonic demiurge.

As a final note about preconceived ideas...

It's hard to do it without prior assumptions though (and I would say no one can really truly do it without prior assumptions),

I agree wholeheartedly. There comes points into the quest where you say yes that makes sense - and then move on from there. Until and even if it does, some "more correct" in our own mind, makes us move in a different direction.

a reply to: vampira309

Just hollowed cast sculptures - that need repairing.

Or maybe its God saying.....

"I didn't appreciate you Catholics using old Roman emperors as models for the Saints"

"Now about Jesus being blue eyed and blond we need to have a serious talk"

a reply to: TinySickTears Just an accident,guess a workman just flicked his cig into the rafters of Notre Dame. The fire started the day a woman was sentenced to prison for attempting to set fire to the church 6 years ago. Eight hundred attacks against french churches and their property last year but those things happen- The French govt has stuck its head it the sand trying to ignore reality but will not be able to ignore the consequences of doing so.

My friend Occam had a great theory on the fire and that is someone didn't follow procedure or established process and a fire started.

In any other circumstances, wouldn't this be called an Act of God?

a reply to: TinySickTears

In one respect you are right to suggest it's wrong to speculate on the worst case scenario, but on the other hand you can't blame people for suspecting a possible attack, as it's not the first attempt on Notre Dame and St Sulpice was burned the week before. In September 2016 a French terror cell plotted to bomb Notre Dame but they were caught and one of them testified against the others - this last woman was jailed on the Friday before the fire and whether or not they did it themselves or not, a lot of Jihadi supporters were celebrating on social media as it happened.

Statistically, also, crimes against Christians and Christian places of worship haven't just increased dramatically in recent years, they have made Christianity the world's most persectued religion, although I also think that minority religions, such as the Yezidi, are in the same boat. Regarding France in particular, in 2018, the Ministry of the Interior recorded 541 anti-Semitic acts, 100 anti-Muslim acts, and 1,063 anti-Christian acts. Churches are being desecrated on a regular basis, sometimes being smeared with excrement and subject to other acts which go beyond what you might call 'self-righteous anger' of those convinced they have a moral pass to set fire to buildings of religions other than their own.

Being in denial about the reality of the situation won't help anyone, Christian or otherwise, but nor should we react violently, thereby fanning the flames of hatred. I thought the following was a fairly well reasoned article about all this:

www.getreligion.org... xWHoBbCoRJdR3-O8

a reply to: opethPA

all workman had already left the site some time before and the last visitor had also left the cathedral 15 minutes before the fire started. Perhaps there was an electrical fault, or perhaps a stray cigarette butt sparked against the old timber. Or maybe someone started in deliberately as they did at St Sulpice the week before and many other churches throughout France before that.

I wonder how many churches are burned down by arsonists compared to those burned accidentally during restoration work, because Occam would really have to agree that such a statistic would be vital in determining what the simplest and most obvious explanation really is