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The Mueller report for all of us to see

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posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




Grand Jury info is likely what those redactions are about.


No, Grand Jury redactions are another category. This category is specifically referring to "harm to ongoing matters".




posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: Cassi3l

Cassi3l, my heart goes out to you if you truly believe that. I sincerely mean that. Dems were thoroughly taken advantage of by some elements within the party, all for their own personal profit and gain and it has really done a number on the country.


Whatever your political color or stripe however,
it does concern me that Mueller considers
That Trump is abusing Presidential Powers


A fair concern, although it is one I personally disagree with. Mueller is not a Constitutional scholar. Of course neither is POTUS....


What powers do you feel he has abused? You don't have to (unless you want to of course) cite any specific law, regulation, code or norm... I am mostly interested to hear what powers in your own words you feel he has abused


Mueller concludes
What does the Congress do ?
What does the Country do ?

Harrumph ?!


What can they/you/we do? Express our opinions and accept the reality that Trump isn't going down as a result of the Mueller probe

Congress can do as it pleases, although at this point any further action involving the issues explored ad nauseum by Mueller is going to look political and likely royally piss the fence-sitters off. You and I likely have our minds made up for 2020 and beyond (barring some major screw up). But those indepedents do not. Not to give unsolicited advice to my political adversaries, but logically one would assume distancing themselves from this mess is the only way to handle this unmitigated disaster

And the country? Well, individuals can do as they please too. But unless you want to revolt (and I mean 10's of millions who are really revolting, not just so protest or activisting) the only viable choice is to convert those fence-sitters and non-voters into die hard Dems (or Repubs, in my case)

But here's the catch, you can't do that by going on and on about Russia conspiracy theories til the end of time. People want to hear policy, they want a likeable (not dull: Looking at Hillary here) candidate who talks to them like people and not brushes them off with things like "flyover country" Folks were getting tired of the Russia 24/7 narrative before the Mueller report sunk said narrative, at this point continuing to push it is only going to backfire (best case scenario) or cause an outright "civil war" within the Dem party of the moderates who actually *want* to win an election again sometime in the next decade or two

Sadly, the Dems chose their path (Woa is Hillary, Russia Russia Russia) post 2016 and have wasted 2 great years on it.

The question is, will you all waste another 2 years or will you get down to business and work on 2020?

What we can not afford, as a nation, is more of this Russia 24/7/365 talk and networks like CNN or MSNBC having hacks like Maddow who make them look like "MSNBC: All Russia All The Time"

Very few people could give two hoots about Russia and would be perfectly happy never hearing its name again as long as they live. Be proud of yourselves though, we destroyed a decent chance at actual peace with Russia over a little bit of spilled Hillary and common-place intelligence back and forth......
edit on 4/18/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:29 PM
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I think you should start worrying for Obama/Comey/HRC/Brennan/Lynch/Clapper/Holder/sztrok.

That's likely what the redacted ongoing matters is about.

Prepare yourself



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Open indictments against Russian military officers & IRA staffers

No new indictments
edit on 4/18/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:31 PM
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Democrats and Republicans are culluding with each other on MSM rehashing the same tireless nonsense everyday about predictable politics.It is so ridiculous fake anymore..Then they disobey Laws of U.S. Constitution and no one goes to jail over bribery,illegal bank bailouts,and wars without congressional approval.C.I.A. corruption.....F.B.I. corruption.....keeps getting worse..



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: toolgal462
I think you should start worrying for Obama/Comey/HRC/Brennan/Lynch/Clapper/Holder/sztrok.

That's likely what the redacted ongoing matters is about.

Prepare yourself


Very good points toolgal, as usual for you! I had this exact same thought


I am curious to see who ends up with the distinction and privilege of going after this motley crew of treasonous leaches



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Thanks and I can't wait! Although I fear how those suffering from TDS are going to react.



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

There was absolute probably cause for all facets of the investigation. Still much going on behind the scenes as the redactions show. There was plenty of conspiring with the Russians with several folks. They can't tie if back to Trump, but people he associated with look pretty guilty.


Oh really?... Is that why NOT ONE of Trump's campaign officials have been indicted on "Colluding with Russia"?

This is another case of "a left-winger in dire need for reading comprehension classes..."



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Jobeycool
Democrats and Republicans are culluding with each other on MSM rehashing the same tireless nonsense everyday about predictable politics.It is so ridiculous fake anymore..Then they disobey Laws of U.S. Constitution and no one goes to jail over bribery,illegal bank bailouts,and wars without congressional approval.C.I.A. corruption.....F.B.I. corruption.....keeps getting worse..


No doubt the power structure likes to defend itself. Look at the laws it has passed exempting individual citizens within the government from personal consequences of their actions

Absolutely terrible how our own ancestors let this country down so unforgivably by remaining silent and cowed while these events were going on

We were due for a new government over a century ago. Instead, we ended up with the same bloated, self-perpetuating, useless hunk of dog excrement we have now. We are stuck with it (for the time being.........) until "something better comes along" and gives us as a nation the chance to correct their past cowardly mistakes

In the mean time, BS like this witch hunt hoax isn't helping matters

All in all, I am infinitely more concerned at the threat the Federal government poses to the Constitutional order and very notion of individual liberty/freedom. They are far more dangerous, and completely devoid of a soul or anything resembling decency/honor/etc.



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 07:14 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Open indictments against Russian military officers & IRA staffers

No new indictments


Barr said all those guys are still "at large" 😎



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: vinifalou

You can still be a lefty and been skeptical of the Russian collusion thing. But hey, keep up the labels and division!
The irony of this post...


The irony of talking about the irony of something that isn't even slightly.




posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler

You're assuming that there's no corrupt intent on Trump's part. That's an opinion.


Children shouldn't play with dead things and this horse you're kicking is long dead, you're getting bits of intestine stuck between your toes.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Sookiechacha

No evidence to support any sort of conspiracy.

No evidence to support charges for obstruction.

The key takeaway. Everything else is merely [interesting] minutia that must be read in that context.

EDIT: Comey, McCabe, Yates and soon to be many others threw away their careers for absolutely nothing
That is karmic justice

EDIT2: The Russia spy stuff is hardly a surprise. This back and forth intelligence nonsense is standard operating procedure, boring day to day stuff that goes on around the clock among the major powers.


10 instances of probable obstruction of justice by Trump himself somehow equal no evidence?



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: Tartuffe
We now know that Trump's actions against the special counsel—so-called obstruction—were merely the protests of an innocent man being framed by his government.


Trump is the President of that government.

How was he 'framed'?

It seems that several things he tweeted about and aid during rallies, self incriminate.

Perhaps he was framing himself?



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Sookiechacha

No evidence to support any sort of conspiracy.

No evidence to support charges for obstruction.

The key takeaway. Everything else is merely [interesting] minutia that must be read in that context.

EDIT: Comey, McCabe, Yates and soon to be many others threw away their careers for absolutely nothing
That is karmic justice

EDIT2: The Russia spy stuff is hardly a surprise. This back and forth intelligence nonsense is standard operating procedure, boring day to day stuff that goes on around the clock among the major powers.


10 instances of probable obstruction of justice by Trump himself somehow equal no evidence?


No charges were brought

Those ten issues are not probable obstruction, they are issues that could potentially be obstruction

The special counsel proved there was no collusion that was a lie that trump haters spread for years as an excuse to hurt him and investigate his entire life


And mueller could not find enough evidence to charge trumo for obstruction

End of story



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 08:32 PM
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10 instances of probable obstruction of justice by Trump himself somehow equal no evidence?


If there were an actionable case, one would have been brought. So yes, 10 instances that by themselves were not sufficient, and even taken altogether were not sufficient. So 10 instances that were circumstantial at best.



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Which has nothing to do with Trump.



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Just pick a chapter and give us your assessment. I'll do mine tomorrow. Consider it your homework.



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

10 instances of probable obstruction of justice by Trump himself somehow equal no evidence?


If there were an actionable case, one would have been brought. So yes, 10 instances that by themselves were not sufficient, and even taken altogether were not sufficient. So 10 instances that were circumstantial at best.


Not so much. Here is Mueller's reasoning for kicking the decision on whether or not Trump obstructed justice.


Constitutional defenses.

As for constitutional defenses arising from the President's status as the head of the Executive Branch, we recognized that the Department of Justice and the courts have not definitively resolved these issues. We therefore examined those issues through the framework established by Supreme Court precedent governing separation-of-powers issues. The Department of Justice and the President's personal counsel have recognized that the President is subject to statutes that prohibit obstruction of justice by bribing a witness or suborning perjury because that conduct does not implicate his constitutional authority. With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice .



Under applicable Supreme Court precedent, the Constitution does not categorically and permanently immunize a President for obstructing justice through the use of his Article II powers . The separation-of-powers doctrine authorizes Congress to protect official proceedings, including those of courts and grand juries, from corrupt, obstructive acts regard less of their source. We also concluded that any inroad on presidential authority that would occur from prohibiting corrupt acts does not undermine the President's ability to fulfill his constitutional mission. The term "corruptly " sets a demanding standard. It requires a concrete showing that a person acted with an intent to obtain an improper advantage for himself or someone else, inconsistent with official duty and the rights of others. A preclusion of "corrupt" official action does not diminish the President's ability to exercise Article II powers. For example , the proper supervision of criminal law does not demand freedom for the President to act with a corrupt intention of shielding himself from criminal punishment , avoiding financial liability, or preventing personal embarrassment. To the contrary , a statute that prohibits official action undertaken for such corrupt purposes furthers, rather than hinders, the impartial and evenhanded administration of the law. It also aligns with the President's constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws. Finally, we concluded that in the rare case in which a criminal investigation of the President 's conduct is justified, inquiries to determine whether the President acted for a corrupt motive should not impermissibly chill his performance of his constitutionally assigned duties . The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President 's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.



CONCLUSION

Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment , we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President 's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.


From page 8.

www.justice.gov...



posted on Apr, 18 2019 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Hopefully it will be a better read than the Page Stzok testimony (where it was explained that the POTUS targeted a US citizen for spying based on a known fallacy. Thanks for the link.



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