Torture: The Truth

Originally posted by devilwasp

There are always a few bad apples but that doesnt mean that the british army does send men to torture people.

Which, as I said, is a different matter.

Yeah then you should know that the british army would not order its men and women to torture someone.

Sorry, I don't know that. Having read many of the "torture papers", it does appear that there are some commanding officers who have ordered heinous acts....naturally, these are never official, and they are never what the respective military branch would recommend or condone; but the fact remains.

your going to complain to me about how precise you want me to be?
Ok, I'll rephrase what I said.
Your picking me up on how precise I am?

No...you said two entirely different things, that's all. First you said that you were sure that no British serviceman would ever do such a thing. Then, you said that you were sure that no British serviceman would ever order such a thing - the two statements are very different. That's all

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Sorry, I don't know that. Having read many of the "torture papers", it does appear that there are some commanding officers who have ordered heinous acts....naturally, these are never official, and they are never what the respective military branch would recommend or condone; but the fact remains.

Hmm, ' the fact remains ' ? What ? that British soldiers torture people in Iraq ? So far all I've seen is waffling BS. You've read ' torture' papers, lol of course you have. Where are your links, you make some heavy allegations with no sources.
No offense why should anyone believe what you have to say ? You hvae put forward no hard facts only your opinion. To tell you the truth, when people say I ' know someone ' etc, their credibility goes down. Heresay isn't accepted in courts why should it be here ?

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Which, as I said, is a different matter.

The matter is torture, is it not?

Sorry, I don't know that. Having read many of the "torture papers", it does appear that there are some commanding officers who have ordered heinous acts....naturally, these are never official, and they are never what the respective military branch would recommend or condone; but the fact remains.

Yeah and how many comanding officers make these claims and "say" there from the higher ups?
Hell one soldier has already had his career ruined because of what another "comanding officer" said.

No...you said two entirely different things, that's all. First you said that you were sure that no British serviceman would ever do such a thing. Then, you said that you were sure that no British serviceman would ever order such a thing - the two statements are very different. That's all

I made a mistake.
Happy?
I know there are some british servicemen that do such an act but I am sure that no one would order it.

Originally posted by rogue1
Hmm, ' the fact remains ' ? What ? that British soldiers torture people in Iraq ? So far all I've seen is waffling BS. You've read ' torture' papers, lol of course you have. Where are your links, you make some heavy allegations with no sources.

First, Try this link ; please note these are not the hoaxed picture cases, k? (Yes, we know some pictures were hoaxed; none of the cases I've referenced refer to these).

Followed by this profile: British soldiers convicted

Army statement relating to same

Different incident this time

Perhaps you'd like to read the now-declassified statements ("torture papers") relating to abuse at Abu Ghraib; there are several books out there.

Alternatively, I could flick through the huge tome I have here, and quote incidents with names, dates etc? It'd take some time, but if that would further serve to get the point across, I don't mind.

You do know that many poeple have been brought under "war crime" allegations and well its mostly a load of BS, hell one guy lost his command for it and it was a load of BS.

Originally posted by devilwasp
You do know that many poeple have been brought under "war crime" allegations and well its mostly a load of BS, hell one guy lost his command for it and it was a load of BS.

Yup, I'm aware of that

Did you investigate these cases mentioned though?

There are admissions of guilt.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Yup, I'm aware of that

Did you investigate these cases mentioned though?

There are admissions of guilt.

As far as I can remember, the one with the lads with the forklift was that one soldier admitted to beating someone the other 2 didnt.

The other 10 one is alledged, not really any proof so far.

I read the above posts. Some nice, others.... made me sick.

Alas. Such precision when it comes to misconduct of "our own" boys; but such indifference when it comes to secret detentions of "unlawful combatants" by the same boys of our "free nations".



I feel sorry for mothers who gave birth to sons who :

1. Torture any human being
2. Kill innocent people
3. Detain people without access to a free court of law.



At any time, there is only one way to decide what is right and what is wrong.

Just ask yourself this question:

Would you keep the present attitude if your son was treated the same way ?






[edit on 10-9-2005 by mr conspiracy]

BTW this is all hypothetical since the britsh armed forces doesnt tolerate torture.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Would you keep the present attitude if your son was treated the same way?
[edit on 10-9-2005 by mr conspiracy]

Yes would you do it if he had just shot at your mates and probably killed you and quite a few civilains, along with his mates doing the same?

I don't understand your question.

He means: Would you torture the insurgent because he would do so when he caught you alive?

I think that's bull# and it's really against all I stand for, I can live with taking
somebody out but I can't live with the fact that I would have to torture people.

Originally posted by zer69

Originally posted by Leon Bokhove
Do you have any statements why I should reconsider joining our Special Forces?

I don't, that was just off topic response, it comes from my anti-military nature.

Too bad, because that would have been interresting. Perhaps you can tell me
why you have this anti-military background? Happenings in the past perhaps?

I've got some videoevidence why I (and most of the world) doesn't like US Forces
and don't see them as people that are out there to 'free' countries, It's sad really
that these no brainers represent your country, I'm afraid allot of US Soldiers are
Mr. no brainer like this sicko. And don't tell me these type of guys are the
majority of the US Forces!!!???

Interogation and torture techniques are instructed to all aquistion specialists in both the milatary and private sector. In particular shadow ops teams with the magic number 27

Originally posted by Leon Bokhove
He means: Would you torture the insurgent because he would do so when he caught you alive?

Thats not what I meant mate.

I think that's bull# and it's really against all I stand for, I can live with taking
somebody out but I can't live with the fact that I would have to torture people.

It is a bull# exscuse and its the usual one used.

Originally posted by devilwasp
BTW this is all hypothetical since the britsh armed forces doesnt tolerate torture.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Would you keep the present attitude if your son was treated the same way?
[edit on 10-9-2005 by mr conspiracy]

Yes would you do it if he had just shot at your mates and probably killed you and quite a few civilains, along with his mates doing the same?

Before I answer further, I just want to clarify:

Are you implying that (and whilst the army might not tolerate torture, it obviously still happens) if you were a serviceman who'd captured an insurgent who had just shot at your mates, who intended to do kill and/or torture you...that you would do the same? IE, you would be inclined to torture the prisoner?

Torture has nothing to do with War, torture is for personal pleasure (whoever find that pleasent)

Originally posted by Leon Bokhove

Originally posted by zer69
I don't, that was just off topic response, it comes from my anti-military nature.

Too bad, because that would have been interresting. Perhaps you can tell me
why you have this anti-military background? Happenings in the past perhaps?

Leon,

I'm sorry to tell ya, but it wouldn't. I didn't even attend the basic military service which is still required in my country, it won't be in next year.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by zer69
That sentence was bad written by me it should've been like: "I would like to point out that those soldiers which perhaps do that.."

Sorry for that.

With respect even hinting it implies you have proof...do you?

Devilwasp, there's a problem somewhere with understanding what I wanted to say, maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker. I don't have a proof, I just wanted to say, that IF the UK soldiers do that, they're certainly not proud of it.