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Torture: The Truth

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posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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What surprised me lately is that so many people are disgusted by fysical torture, but are apologetic about mental torture.

They don't seem to understand that the fysical torture is actualy a way to break a person mentaly. Because that is what torture is all about, breaking the subjects spirit so they'll do and say whatever the interogator needs to know.(although theres alot of cases where torture is used for fun, usualy in prisons.)

Some people actualy were laughing at some of the torture methods at Gitmo being the desecration of the Koran and stuff like the loud playing of Christina Aguilera music.

Torture as an information retrieval tool is all about breaking the spirit and a good interogator will seek out and use everything, cultural, personal, physical, emotional, EVERYTHING, to break the subjects spirit.




posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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Some of you might be interested in reading this book



I borrowed a copy from the local library.

I've been on these boards for a few months now, and in that time I've seen numerous attempts at denying the charges of torture at Abu Ghraib. I've seen various posters saying "Oh, they're all terrorists...", "It's all bs, it never happened", and worse, "maybe they deserve it..." and "they're lucky I can't get my hands on them...", etc.

Perhaps then, it's all the more horrifying to read the statements and the confessions of the abusers; and it's even worse when you read that many of these victims were later released with no charge, and sent home. Beaten, humiliated and in some cases raped, these people were guilty of nothing.

Unfortunately, even the publication of those official documents - again, which include statements made by those who admitted the abuse - won't change the mindset of some, that they either deserved it, or they are lucky they weren't just killed first.

It's that mindset that quite frankly terrifies me.

Because if we're so quick to accept, or condone, torturing those who are innocent, and those who haven't even been charged with a crime - what on earth will we be willing to do to those found guilty?!



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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Reading and hearing all this makes me sick, I couldn't torture someone even if
my life depended on it. I can't even hurt people just like that. Sometimes I'm
glad I live in Holland. I know for sure things like this don't happen here and our
military doesn't even think of torturing people for information, we are very strict
when it comes to human rights even during a war.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by phixion
Torture is being carried out all over the world 'for fun'.


It's a cool thing for soldiers what to do in their spare time? Eh?


My opinion - I think this is very normal for human mankind we like to dominate, see someone suffer. We like blood, control/humiliate someone, etc. Worse than animals I tell ya.


And for the torture in Iraq & Afghan, what can I say? We shouldn't send mentally pre-teen sickos (17-22 year soldiers) to warzone.

When they don't torture someone, they at least post their most cruel photos on the net. Check these links if you want to see how disgusting/sick they are.
Extremely graphic - please be warned. see at your own risk



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by zer69

Originally posted by phixion
Torture is being carried out all over the world 'for fun'.


It's a cool thing for soldiers what to do in their spare time? Eh?


My opinion - I think this is very normal for human mankind we like to dominate, see someone suffer. We like blood, control/humiliate someone, etc. Worse than animals I tell ya.


And for the torture in Iraq & Afghan, what can I say? We shouldn't send mentally pre-teen sickos (17-22 year soldiers) to warzone.

When they don't torture someone, they at least post their most cruel photos on the net. Check these links if you want to see how disgusting/sick they are.
Extremely graphic - please be warned. see at your own risk


I'm currently 17 and in 4 days I'll turn 18, I'm a future dutch marine. Looking
at the world these days, it's almost sure I will go to the warzone in a few year.
By that time I will be something like 20 or something. I can't say if I'm ready
for the things I'm about to witness there, but I sure know I'm no sicko who
likes to torture people! Are you saying that all teen soldiers are sick bastards
that like to torture and people and like to see them suffer? Because I don't.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by zer69
And for the torture in Iraq & Afghan, what can I say? We shouldn't send mentally pre-teen sickos (17-22 year soldiers) to warzone.


I'm fairly sure that's a major over-generalisation...besides the obvious, the majority of those accused in the torture cases were quite a bit older than your average 17-22 year old soldiers; likewise the majority of soldiers aren't involved at all.



When they don't torture someone, they at least post their most cruel photos on the net.


Probably because some people do get a kick out of seeing graphic images of torture/death. If there wasn't a "market" for it, they wouldn't have an audience.



[edit on 10-9-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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I've looked around a bit on the site. I only saw bodies, killed by bullets....
I'm not saying that I'm cool with that, because I'd rather see everybody
alive and well an cooperating with eachother to make the world a better place,
but I'm more cool with the fact they were shot clean to take them out then to
see evidence of torture on the people's bodies just for fun and eventually death.
I think those zero-IQ soldiers don't realise they are just as sick as the Terrorists.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Leon Bokhove
I'm currently 17 and in 4 days I'll turn 18, I'm a future dutch marine.


Hmm thats cool - not. I would like to encourage you to think again about it.


Are you saying that all teen soldiers are sick bastards
that like to torture and people and like to see them suffer?


Nope, it was a generalization.


Originally posted by Tinkleflower
I'm fairly sure that's a major over-generalisation...besides the obvious, the majority of those accused in the torture cases were quite a bit older than your average 17-22 year old soldiers; likewise the majority of soldiers aren't involved at all.


Yes you're right it was. I also believe that the majority aren't involved and hope that those sicko f***s are very small percentage of actual soldiers.


Probably because some people do get a kick out of seeing graphic images of torture/death. If there wasn't a "market" for it, they wouldn't have an audience.


Unfortunately there is such audience.
I hope they'll soon start to realize that they need a pro. help.

[edit on 2005-9-10 by zer69]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by 00PS
I had a friend out here in China and he was from Britain. He told me horror stories about what British soldiers do. When they've killed a body they will cut off the male genetils and put them in the dead persons mouth. They will then write slurs against the victims race or ethnicity or ideology on their skin with knives.

If this is a true account of what they do when people are dead we can only imagine what they can do when they are alive.

I as a british ciztizen cant accept this happens, I know british marines and ex british soldeirs, they would not do that.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

I as a british ciztizen cant accept this happens, I know british marines and ex british soldeirs, they would not do that.
[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]


You refuse to accept it?

Because you know a few marines?

That's...actually quite worrying. How can you assume you "know" what happens in these cases, simply based on your knowing "some people"?

Sorry, but I think you're gravely mistaken. It's just as easy for me to say "My sister's husband is currently a soldier in the British army, and he confirmed that there are some idiots who do are in fact guilty of these exact things".

It just seems terribly naive to think that "just because they're in the British Army/Marines, they would never do such a thing!".



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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I have no idea. I'm not making it up either. This is what was told to me first hand from an ex-soldier. Has anyone ever heard of this as well?



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
I as a british ciztizen cant accept this happens, I know british marines and ex british soldeirs, they would not do that.


Besides Tinkleflower's arguments I would like to point out that those soldiers which perhaps do that, are certainly not proud of it (hope) and are not going to praise their cruelties.

[edit on 2005-9-10 by zer69]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by zer69

Originally posted by Leon Bokhove
I'm currently 17 and in 4 days I'll turn 18, I'm a future dutch marine.


Hmm thats cool - not. I would like to encourage you to think again about it.


Do you have any statements why I should reconsider joining our Special Forces?



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
You refuse to accept it?

Yeah I do, it breaks everything the forces stand for.


Because you know a few marines?

No, because I know british servicemen.


That's...actually quite worrying. How can you assume you "know" what happens in these cases, simply based on your knowing "some people"?

I think its more worrying that people are trying to say that my serviemen knowingly do torture people to get information out of people.
Because british servicemen DONT go out on orders from above and torture people.


Sorry, but I think you're gravely mistaken. It's just as easy for me to say "My sister's husband is currently a soldier in the British army, and he confirmed that there are some idiots who do are in fact guilty of these exact things".

If you did say that then I would agree, there are some idiots in the british army that do that but frankly if you did say that "My sisters husband is a british army serviceman and he confirmed that the british army tortures people for information" then I wouldnt think it.
Frankly when you speak to them you see they actually respect the values and believe in it.


It just seems terribly naive to think that "just because they're in the British Army/Marines, they would never do such a thing!".

Well thats your opinion, when you speak to british servicemen , you reslise that they do believe it.



Originally posted by zer69
Besides Tinkleflower's arguments I would like to point out that those soldiers which do that, are certainly not proud of it (hope) and are not going to praise their cruelties.

With respect, how do you know that they do this?
Do you know that they actualy do this under orders from above or are they just idiots who slipped through the net?


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Dutch Marines work often side by side with the English Marines, we are much
more respected by the citizens of the country-at-war because we respect them
allot more then the US Forces do. They aren't kind at all and they look at all those
people like they are terrorists, and that is stupid to think... easy as that. Killing
innocent women and children and still think the people are cool with that because
you 'free' them, yeah right!!! As far as I know, soldier are still there to help and aid
instead of eliminating everything they don't like. When Dutch and/or English forces
enter towns it's a completely different story, people will be running at them with
happy faces and we take the time to listen to them and their stories (as far as
their english goes), we help them providing some food and if needed reconstruct
a part of their house which either insurgents or US Forces blew up. Afterwards
Dutch and English Forces leave with a satisfied and clean memory because they
did the right thing and left the people smiling, that are the true soldiers!!!!
Big respect for the Dutch and English Forces out there on the battlefield that
keep ik HUMAN!!!



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah I do, it breaks everything the forces stand for.


Again, this proves nothing. It's a statement of intent - and we know that within every group are those few bad apples.



No, because I know british servicemen.


And so do I. That's my point. I was born and raised in England, have a brother-in-law who is currently actually IN Iraq, and have two relatives elsewhere, in the forces. You're not the only person who has experience with British servicemen.



I think its more worrying that people are trying to say that my serviemen knowingly do torture people to get information out of people.
Because british servicemen DONT go out on orders from above and torture people.


Except apparently, some of them do this. Whether they're ordered to by higherups is a different question - but that wasn't the point. It's more worrying, to me, that someone can deny this even without considering those who've actually admitted it. Besides, you initially stated that you simply didn't believe British servicemen would do this - obviously, some of them do, and have done so. If your contention is that they wouldn't have been ordered to do so, then that might indeed be a different matter entirely.



Frankly when you speak to them you see they actually respect the values and believe in it.


No. That's a false assumption. The truth would be along the lines of "When you speak to most, they actually respect the values and believe in it". In fact, it's probably fair to say ALL servicement would say those words. However, this absolutely doesn't preclude some of them actually going against these values...whether or not you or I like it, or want to believe it.


Well thats your opinion, when you speak to british servicemen , you reslise that they do believe it.


You cannot speak for every serviceman.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Leon Bokhove
Do you have any statements why I should reconsider joining our Special Forces?


I don't, that was just off topic response, it comes from my anti-military nature.


Originally posted by devilwasp
With respect, how do you know that they do this?
Do you know that they actualy do this under orders from above or are they just idiots who slipped through the net?


That sentence was bad written by me it should've been like: "I would like to point out that those soldiers which perhaps do that.."

Sorry for that.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Again, this proves nothing. It's a statement of intent - and we know that within every group are those few bad apples.

There are always a few bad apples but that doesnt mean that the british army does send men to torture people.



And so do I. That's my point. I was born and raised in England, have a brother-in-law who is currently actually IN Iraq, and have two relatives elsewhere, in the forces. You're not the only person who has experience with British servicemen.

Yeah then you should know that the british army would not order its men and women to torture someone.



Except apparently, some of them do this. Whether they're ordered to by higherups is a different question - but that wasn't the point. It's more worrying, to me, that someone can deny this even without considering those who've actually admitted it. Besides, you initially stated that you simply didn't believe British servicemen would do this - obviously, some of them do, and have done so. If your contention is that they wouldn't have been ordered to do so, then that might indeed be a different matter entirely.

So your going to complain to me about how precise you want me to be?
Ok, I'll rephrase what I said.
I with every fibre in being do not think that the british army would order its men and women to torture people and that although it does happen, it does not have any bearing or reflect what the army and its soldiers do.



No. That's a false assumption. The truth would be along the lines of "When you speak to most, they actually respect the values and believe in it". In fact, it's probably fair to say ALL servicement would say those words. However, this absolutely doesn't preclude some of them actually going against these values...whether or not you or I like it, or want to believe it.

Your picking me up on how precise I am?



You cannot speak for every serviceman.

No but I can speak for the majority.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by zer69
That sentence was bad written by me it should've been like: "I would like to point out that those soldiers which perhaps do that.."

Sorry for that.

With respect even hinting it implies you have proof...do you?



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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The removal of the genitalia and the placement in the mouth is always said to have occurred in retaliation for the same by the enemy. Yes, it happens. It happened in Viet Nam.

Torture is torture.
Mutilation of a dead body is mutilation of a dead body.
No sense defining the difference.

Neither are virtuous traits.
Just because it occurs does not make it right.



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