a reply to: dfnj2015
Interesting thread - interesting point of view - well worth thinking about. Thank you. And thank you for the openning to put on paper, so to speak,
my understanding/intuition/desire at this moment in time and space.
I call myself an atheist.
I am also an agnostic, as I don't believe I can prove, nor can anyone else, prove in an objective and reproducible manner, the existence of a creator
As a human, with limited physical sensory capabilities, even with modern tools that extend this sensory capacity, it would be hubris to imply that I
have definitive answers to super-sensible (let's call that spiritual for ease) questions. Questions that cannot be measured.
I have come to believe, through study and experience, that there is much I don't understand as an individual and that we as a collective don't
The idea that only something 'measurable' is REAL is just as useless as only FAITH is REAL, it terms of living the good life, we need to work both
ends to the middle.
I have a basic faith in the correctness (not goodness/not badness) of the universe. I have faith in the principles of that universe both physical
(i.e. gravity) and spiritual (i.e. karma). Neither belief requires a 'creator being' but does no exclude the existence of spiritual beings that we
cannot detect by our normal senses.
I believe that creation is statistically FAIR. That there is no 'get out of jail free cards" and that we are responsible for our actions, speech and
thoughts regardless of what we might "want to our scorecard". I find that very freeing in the sense that I can choose how my life progresses from
this moment - which direction I want to talk in each moment, which coyote to feed and so forth rather then wait.
I find your idea:
"For people who turn away from God there are two paths. One is the short path. One is the long path. First, we will start with the long path. With the
long path, after your turn away from God, you choose not to participate with what you are experiencing. This is a very nihilistic way of being. At
that moment the person chooses to turn away from God and stop participating with the Universe in a kind of suicidal rage against being itself, the
person is immediately given the power of being omnipotent. "
In my belief system - there is no either or situation. It is both, regardless of belief or not in God.
However, I find it a matter of self-development, in all areas of life that is the - mmm - vector of improvement and that is determined by one's
actions. (the old saying "God only helps those who help themselves...")
The concept of transcendence is that one evolves spiritually to a point were the laws of nature, physical and spiritual, no longer apply or have
influence (hence the word) and that involves learning and effort and thousands of lives to reach. It isn't so much a choice at death (though some
writings do consider this possibility - if one is truly prepared) as a continuance of the process.
However much I would like to believe in a personal 'soul' or 'Atman' (from Hindu writings) that is 'you' throughout eternity, I'm coming to believe in
something much more profound which leads to greater responsibility for my actions, etc in the hear and now. That being that we come from a karmic
'ocean' of of bits and pieces added to a physical heritage to become a unique 'point of view' for this life and when we leave this life our karmic
vector in this life, raises or lowers, the 'ocean' from which we all come. Therefore - our individual actions and thoughts throughout life have
enhanced meaning - they quite literally rise or lower the collective 'ocean''s level of progress towards transendence.