A Stab at the Christian Myth

originally posted by: Woodcarver
This is the first tablet. There are 7 altogether. While it is certainly not the exact same story, For those willing to look, you will see many elements of genesis included in these verses.

Have you considered there are similarities because they are describing the same historical event?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: JBIZZ
Very interesting post. I believe 2000 years from now people may view movie franchises like Star Wars & The Matrix similarly since they derive from these religious stories as well. All science also derives from religion. We would not have universities or governments without religion.

Possibly. But we also know that religion poisons universities and governments.

Science doesn’t derive from religion, but it could be argued that the organization found around religious institutions, such as reading and writing, and the centralization of stored information, helped promote the idea that science was indeed the best path to discerning fact from assertion.

It could also be argued that science is what proves the fictitious nature of historical religious texts.

How does religion poison it, not much different from atheism. Lack of belief, Stalin and USSR, Mao and China, great leaps backwards based on a lack of faith

The “we are all animals and have no value” movement didn’t go well did it

Your problem woodie is you fail tomsee it’s a people of all beliefs or lack thereof problem not a religious issue. You are playing the blame game and blaming others you are not of. Truth is many of your own philosophy are just as bad, maybe worse

Why do you think people insist that Christianity is not taught in schools and not used to govern the populace?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Shouldn’t that be atheism as well, your atheist kin have a huge death count, you can be like a plague

Why not govern populace, you tell me?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

Shouldn’t that be atheism as well, your atheist kin have a huge death count, you can be like a plague

Why not govern populace, you tell me?

Populace is enveloped in slavery... we are done.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Funny thing is that biblicaly speaking, the “church” is not a building, it’s a group of people.
It was the Catholics who made the church about a building and not a gathering of christians

a reply to: InTheLight

Jesus set people free from religion and life
This life has little value to me, I don’t cling to it as if it’s my all.

I am looking forward to the day I am released or Christ’s return
Yousystem, younare the slave not me, I observe, I know the truth, just a little while longer

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: LABTECH767

Funny thing is that biblicaly speaking, the “church” is not a building, it’s a group of people.
It was the Catholics who made the church about a building and not a gathering of christians

Exactly correct, the Church is not the chapel but today we refer interchangeably of church in reference to building's and congregations of believers - the first gathering places though were often hidden places due to the persecution the early followers of the way endured, houses even became places of worship but that in fact is perhaps how Jesus meant it be as in the last supper but of course as the congregations got bigger they needed larger venues.

Much later when Constantine declared Christianity the official state religion of the ailing Roman Empire and for a short time halted the decline of that empire it was then that early Cathedrals often re-purposed pagan temples such as the Pantheon in Rome (which served as a church building for many century's).

Indeed even the early purpose built church building's in the Roman empire after Constantine's declaration would in many cases have looked very much like the pagan temple's had minus the pagan idol's.

Elsewhere pagan sites were often re-purposed sometime's as a result of dream's or even miracles telling monk's and other christian's to built upon them or to take control of them and this became a church tradition, one such notable important site related with a miracle and much more recent in time was the hill of Tepeyac near to Mexico which was associated with the pagan Goddess Tonantzin of the Aztec pantheon - the little mother of the corn and children which became a very important christian site following the famous miracle of the appearance of the Virgin Mary to Huan Diego a recently converted but very devout Aztec Peasant - his Tilma a cactus cloth cape made of a paper like material formed into cotton like threads from peyote cactus should have rotted away within 5 or so years especially as it was unprotected and exposed to the element's and moth's for hundreds of years but it did not, the image on it appeared after the apparition told him to collect some flowers which he then took to the disbelieving bishop whom recognized them as Spanish roses not native to south america and when huan diego opened his tilma in which he had wrapped the flower's after the apparition had carefully arranged them to show the bishop the bishop fell to his knee's as the image we today call our lady of Guadeloupe had been imprinted upon the tilma.

There are so very many such site's, even Anglican and protestant missions continued this practice when they sent out missionary's to convert people in the land's that the European expansion brought them too.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: KansasGirl

I have been where you are though, so I do understand. I don't blame you for believing what you do, because as I said, I was there before.

Respectfully, it is unlikely you have been where he is at. Once a person sees the Abrahamic religions for what they really are, there is no going back.

Respectfully, it is unlikely that such a blanket statement could be anywhere near accurate when you're talking about the lense through which individuals process their beliefs.

You are correct. I should have added "with few exceptions" to that, but didn't think of it at the time.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: KansasGirl
I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person who was crucified by the Romans (at the behest of the top-tier Jewish preists in Jerusalem) and then returned to life, so I won't comment on your well-written take on the story.


I do, though, want to ask the artists' names for the two paintings you chose? Curious. I love the one of the cross- it's beautiful. The one with Mary and infant Jesus is somewhat freaky; Depictions of the baby Jesus during that time period (I THINK sometime in the teens? 1300 or 1500 AD?) all painted a man's face on a baby's body for some reason. A little disturbing. 😂 Also- is that man-baby holding an APPLE?! That is messed up.

You should follow the rabit hole i left up there in my earlier post. reluctant-messenger.com... who thinks that Jesus was a real person hasn’t read up on the origins of Judaism and Christianity.

Likewise, anyone who believes Jesus was not a real person can read about the life of St Issa reluctant-messenger.com...
One can also check the old documentary about Jesus(Issa) in India. I happened to have met Madame Caspari who worked directly with Maria Montessori in India and she told of how she went to Himis and the head Llama there said” These documents say your Jesus was here”.
So chew on that for a while.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Astrocyte

Look up a picture of Isis holding Horace on her lap.

If you want The complete picture of what the Abrahamic religions are trying to portray. You should start with early Sumarian writings, and work your way up through all of the other early middle eastern teachings. You’re basically starting in the middle of the story if all you are focusing on is the Christian Bible.

The false claim about "Christianity plaguiarized the Egyptian religion, and others before it" has been shown to be wrong several times. This false claim exists only in the minds of "mysticists."

As I wrote in another thread responding to these same claims which were made up "by mysthicists":

"Not really. just because someone makes a graphic image and claims Jesus' story is the same as Horus doesn't make it so.

Isis, the mother of Horus wasn't impregnated as a virgin. She was according to Egyptian texts married to another god. Her husband, Osiris, was dismembered. isis was able to use "her powers" and put together most of Osiris except his "phallus" (male organ). Isis fashioned a golden phallus and was then impregnated. If she needed the golden phallus to be impregnated by Horus then it wasn't a "virgin birth".

Horus was the Sun god and the god of war. Jesus wasn't going around with a sword hacking people left and right in wars, but Horus was. Not to mention that there are many variations of the story of Horus. BTW, just as a side note and a fun fact, the name "the book of the dead" was given to these "books" because they were all found with mummies.

Then there is the fact that there are Roman records that do prove Jesus Christ did exist, that he was tortured and crucified under order of Pontius Pilate, and Christianity was named after him. Despite mythicists claiming there is no evidence, all they are doing is denying the evidence that has been found.

In Egyptian mythology there was no "Anup the baptizer". This was a concoction made by Gerald Massey in the 19th century. Anup is the Indian name for Anubis. Anubis was another god associated with mummification and the afterlife.

Also, Horus did not heal the sick. This story is another concoction from what the Egyptian texts actually say. Horus was poisoned and killed by Seth, and Isis requests the god Thoth that her son Horus be brought to life. (It wasn't even Horus the one that supposedly did the resurrection, it was another god Thoth who resurrected Horus)

The ancient Egyptians used the "spell" that brought Horus to life to "try to cure people". This spell is written in the monument Metternich Stella of the 4th century B.C. The belief was that the spirit of Horus would dwell within the sick.


That is a far cry from Jesus performing miracles and curing people.

As for Asar translating to Lazarus? Osiris is a Greek transliteration of Asar, which is an Egyptian name. It was the god Thoth who raised Asar/Osiris, the husband of Isis. Asar does not translate to "Lazarus" or to it's Hebrew word/meaning Eleazar. (Again it wasn't Horus who did the resurrection, it was Thoth)

As for the claim that Horus was crucified? Show me proof from an ancient Egyptian text that says this. All that mythicists use is an image of Horus with arms spread out and this to them is proof of a crucifixion, which is not true.

The claim that he had twelve disciples once again comes from Gerald Massey, but there are no ancient Egyptian texts that say he had twelve followers. There are myths of Horus that mention of four sons, or six demi-gods who followed him (some sources even say 16 human followers). But there is no actual proof that he had twelve disciples. Massey uses a mural which has the inscription "the twelve who reap the harvest", but there is no mention of Horus in that mural.

So no, Jesus' story wasn't plagiarized from Horus' (myth)."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Ironic how "atheists" love to ignore all the historians, including Jewish and pagan Romans, who wrote about Jesus as actually existing. The Romans themselves made a cruel joke claiming Mary was raped by a Roman and that's how Jesus was born. But even then the Roman, pagan, historians wrote that Jesus was able to do miracles and was seen as a magician (not today's type of magician).

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
Likewise, anyone who believes Jesus was not a real person can read about the life of St Issa reluctant-messenger.com...
One can also check the old documentary about Jesus(Issa) in India. I happened to have met Madame Caspari who worked directly with Maria Montessori in India and she told of how she went to Himis and the head Llama there said” These documents say your Jesus was here”.
So chew on that for a while.

Thank you for this, always heard the idea that Jesus was in India for a little, but never had someone post a worthwhile source. Very convincing. This especially stuck with me:

"Issa taught that men should not strive to behold the Eternal Spirit with one's own eyes but to feel it with the heart, and to become a pure and worthy soul" (i.e. Matthew 6:21)

Cooperation: You’re welcome. This is one time I’m going to source Huffington Post as it matches pretty much what I learned over the years. It matches the accounts of Notovitch and the monastery in the Himalayas. I learned something new too, that Pastor Rick Warren mention St Issa.... that was surprising. But even Warren and Huffpo can get it right once in a while. www.google.com...

Super being Jesus versus historically boring Jesus or naught. Jesus in his own majesty or respect is his own character that shares a wide variety of shared themes to even his own.

Sure, Horus birth shares the similarity, and wether this was a case divine inspiration or copyright issues I couldn't make up my mind. Although I do recall Jesus making sure he told Uncle Satan "No, or I will tell Dad", where as Horus went to court instead.

Jesus shares the story of death an rebirth with the pagan god Ianna, and even the symbology that was placed on Venus. Hercules at the end of his 12 labors dies but is forgiven for his sins to his family and goes off to Olympus to be with his father, while the Hebrew figure Sameul, where even the Christians acknowledge his strength is very much like the Greco/Roman son of god.

And Jesus said he could break down a 100 year work in progress in 3 days.

Buddha had three temptations and was all about love an peace man...and not having hypontoic hallucinations to not being a Jealous sob of one.

a reply to: Woodcarver

A myth with many similes. Somewhere, exists the exact version, but probably not in print.

a reply to: Woodcarver

It was a stab at the Christian myth - not the enuma elish.

Do you think I was implying humans in other cultures aren't subject to the same anthropological dynamics?

Myths are reflections of the psychosocial conditions of the society. They do not have to all be the same.

Isis is depicted with a throne on her head, and hence is synonymous with the earth. Pharaoh, who 'sits on the throne' - and throne is a synonym for Isis - is associated with the falcon/horus. This sounds nothing like the myth of the virgin Mary.

Instead, one can definitely make out the incestuous qualities of Egyptian elitist culture - who the myths were for (not the masses) - and so Pharaoh sitting on the throne of Isis is akin to Horus having sex with his mother Isis. It's well known that the Egyptian nobility cultivated these practices.

As Egyptian society evolved away from its murderous origins - and no culture leaves more evidence of violence than early ancient Egypt i.e. Naqadan culture, up until the third dynasty - it eventually became more docile, and with a changing culture came changes and transformations in the depictions/representations of Isis.

Since cultures evolve i.e. the sociopolitical conditions and quality of living continuously changes - it makes sense that Egyptian mythology would carry some beneficent elements as well. For instance, the monotheistic god of Akhenaten was probably an influence on the Hebrew religious formulation.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: InTheLight

Jesus set people free from religion and life
This life has little value to me, I don’t cling to it as if it’s my all.

I am looking forward to the day I am released or Christ’s return
Yousystem, younare the slave not me, I observe, I know the truth, just a little while longer

Your system, you know your truth only...waiting is a travesty.

originally posted by: Specimen
Socrates for Hebrews!?

See a Christ, kill a Christ? Sounds very familiar.

The confused caterpillars had a lot invested in their caterpillar life, and therefore wanted to kill an awakening caterpillar that was convincing the people that they could become a butterfly. In an attempt to kill the awakened caterpillar, they hung it from a tree... and three days later it emerged as a butterfly and flew away.