Black Hole Picture and Research Links

The Astrophysical Journal Letters published a summary of the project here:

iopscience.iop.org...

Links to the six articles published today describing the history and details of the project are at the bottom of the page at that website.

A lot of learn here.

Focus on the First Event Horizon Telescope Results
Shep Doeleman (EHT Director) on behalf of the EHT Collaboration

April 2019

a reply to: Phantom423

I wonder if they have seen any evidence of rotation?

I was all hyped up for these images. They are all good but I was hoping for detail. I guess I just have to wait to see in the future when it gets more and more detailed. I just hope I don't die first but if I do maybe I will experience blackhole first hand when I die.


Here's to hoping!

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Phantom423

I wonder if they have seen any evidence of rotation?

Well their animations certainly show rotation....I wonder why the picture shows an ellipse instead of round in the shape of the BH, it could something to do with matter pouring into the BH at a certain point I suppose, but wouldn't that be a talking point?...that nobodies talking about.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
I was all hyped up for these images. They are all good but I was hoping for detail. I guess I just have to wait to see in the future when it gets more and more detailed. I just hope I don't die first but if I do maybe I will experience blackhole first hand when I die.


Here's to hoping!

I'm not sure how much detail can really be expected. While I'm no black hole expert, it seems to me, any emissions would not be in a "spectrum" visible to humans.

I think the term "picture" is probably a bit misleading, if ppl are expecting something like a photograph.

originally posted by: Phantom423
The Astrophysical Journal Letters published a summary of the project here:

iopscience.iop.org...

Links to the six articles published today describing the history and details of the project are at the bottom of the page at that website.

A lot of learn here.

Focus on the First Event Horizon Telescope Results
Shep Doeleman (EHT Director) on behalf of the EHT Collaboration

April 2019

Mmmmmmmm....... Donuts. Pretty cool pic considering the distance. If this is the central black hole in our galaxy, why is the acreation disk perpendicular to the galactic equator? Or wasn't anyone supposed to notice that?

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle


They took two shots at two SMBH. OUrs, Sgr A*, and the one in M87. The composite photo is of M87.

They wanted to double down their efforts in case one did not work out to well. Which is good because it didn't! Although the photo of the Milky Way's SMBH will be released just not today.



PS - Homer Simpson already told Stephan Hawking about his donut-shaped universe theory!!



Nice read at Quanta Magazine about the EHT lead, Sheperd Doeleman, written by his fellow researcher from when they were back in college until the announcement:

What the Sight of a Black Hole Means to a Black Hole Physicist.

Good stuff!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I could see m87 or some other galaxy being used. Probably necessary for a spiral galaxy to be used with good rotation in order to catch the a creation disk. Btw, a torrodial Gaussian field moving at about C will create an acreation disk using injected plasma. You get a well defined magnetic vortex effect in the center, add a couple of lasers, you can make your own BECs. Fun stuff :-)

Cheers - Dave

Not real.





Just kidding (kinda)

a reply to: Phantom423
I would see if witnessing this somehow exposes us to it like an eye. Now it is set to point itself towards our direction and eat it's way here in two million years our time.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The black hole is in M87 - the Messier Galaxy, not the Milky Way, which is our galaxy. I don't know the geometry of this black hole relative to its galaxy equator. Actually, I was wondering today why they chose M87 and not the Milky Way black hole.

The answers are probably in the six research papers which I intend to read over the next few weeks.

Right now there's a lot of reading to be done, a lot of questions to be asked. That's the fun part!

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Given that it's about 52 million light years away, I don't think we have much to worry about! It is five times more massive than the Milky Way black hole - maybe that's why the telescopes could accomplish what they did.

I haven't read the research papers yet. A lot of answers will be in there.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Good article you posted from Quanta:

The image is unmistakable — a dark shadow the size of our solar system, enveloped by a bright, beautiful blob. While the scientific implications will take time to unpack, some of the anthropological impact feels immediate. The light EHT collected from M87 headed our way 55 million years ago.

Over those eons, we emerged on Earth along with our myths, differentiated cultures, ideologies, languages and varied beliefs. Looking at M87, I am reminded that scientific discoveries transcend those differences. We are all under the same sky, all of us bound to this pale blue dot, floating in the sparse local territory of our solar system’s celestial bodies, under the warmth of our yellow sun, in a sparse sea of stars, in orbit around a supermassive black hole at the center of our luminous galaxy.

When asked his thoughts at the moment he first saw the image of the black hole in M87, Shep replied, “We saw something so true.” And it’s true for all of us.

What boggles the mind is how Einstein predicted black holes and didn't believe they were possible himself! But there there it is.

a reply to: butcherguy

I have no idea. A rotating black hole has angular momentum. I would think - and it's just a guess - that analyzing the spectroscopic data over time could give an answer as to whether it was a rotating black hole. The person(s) to ask are Arbitrageur and Eros - they know a lot more than I do about rotating black holes. The research papers are probably a good place to look for a complete description of this particular black hole.

a reply to: Phantom423

I saw the ticket tape on the news "physicists take first photo of black hole" and being a space Capet I growled inhumanly and went straight to the interwebz.

And there it was. Congratulations to all who were involved in this project.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The black hole is in M87 - the Messier Galaxy, not the Milky Way, which is our galaxy. I don't know the geometry of this black hole relative to its galaxy equator. Actually, I was wondering today why they chose M87 and not the Milky Way black hole.

The answers are probably in the six research papers which I intend to read over the next few weeks.

Right now there's a lot of reading to be done, a lot of questions to be asked. That's the fun part!

Last I checked our central black hole in our galaxy has an alleged acreation disk parallel with the galactic plane which would be difficult to resolve, since we are basically on the same galactic plane. Looking at another galaxy like m87 would probably give a clearer view of a galactic centre and its carnivore.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

There is one article calling the SMBH the best “engine in the universe’! And that seems so true when you consider the X-ray jets extending out into space at, what, half a light year (??).

My personal opinion is the BH entangles matter across the galaxy and it is like the Schuman resonance. We all hum along to the same grove.

Which may be why an alien race from another galaxy hasn’t contacted us... the message is lost in frequency translation!

Anyway, this is good conversation topic and politics can’t F it up.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

One thing to remember about black holes and I can't remember if it was feyman or kip Thorne or whomever that said it but "God abhors a naked singularity." We used to joke about this after I built our adiabatic reactor for the nrc. Black holes can't be imaged or seen as they clothe themselves in the cloth of gravity. I don't agree with hawking either on his theory of black hole evaporation. It's counterintuitive, gravity draws in particles as mass attracts posotive mass, not negative mass. Antiparticles, having negative mass would likely be repelled. So, mass plus negative mass = 0 for spontaneous particle generation, no decrease or increase in black hole gravity and no "radiation." Mass only = 1 or an increase in black hole gravity, possible detectable radiation.

Condensed: Hawking postulated that "some" particles at the event horizon would split into a particle/antiparticles pair and that the antiparticles would fall through the event horizon and decrease the mass of the black hole while the normal particle flew away highly charged. Hence black hole evaporation and hawking radiation.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

There is one article calling the SMBH the best “engine in the universe’! And that seems so true when you consider the X-ray jets extending out into space at, what, half a light year (??).

My personal opinion is the BH entangles matter across the galaxy and it is like the Schuman resonance. We all hum along to the same grove.

Which may be why an alien race from another galaxy hasn’t contacted us... the message is lost in frequency translation!

Anyway, this is good conversation topic and politics can’t F it up.

Wouldn't that be a kick to detect entanglement!

Interesting idea about the Schmann resonances - I guess the reverse would be true also - that messages we sent out into space may be flat lined? I have to read up on that.

The Schumann resonances (SR) are a set of spectrum peaks in the extremely low frequency (ELF) portion of the Earth's electromagnetic field spectrum. Schumann resonances are global electromagnetic resonances, generated and excited by lightning discharges in the cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.[1]

In the normal mode descriptions of Schumann resonances, the fundamental mode is a standing wave in the Earth–ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the circumference of the Earth. This lowest-frequency (and highest-intensity) mode of the Schumann resonance occurs at a frequency of approximately 4.11 Hz, but this frequency can vary slightly from a variety of factors, such as solar-induced perturbations to the ionosphere, which compresses the upper wall of the closed cavity.[citation needed] The higher resonance modes are spaced at approximately 6.5 Hz intervals,[citation needed] a characteristic attributed to the atmosphere's spherical geometry. The peaks exhibit a spectral width of approximately 20% on account of the damping of the respective modes in the dissipative cavity. The 8th partial lies at approximately 60 Hz.[citation needed]

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The black hole is in M87 - the Messier Galaxy, not the Milky Way, which is our galaxy. I don't know the geometry of this black hole relative to its galaxy equator. Actually, I was wondering today why they chose M87 and not the Milky Way black hole.

The answers are probably in the six research papers which I intend to read over the next few weeks.

Right now there's a lot of reading to be done, a lot of questions to be asked. That's the fun part!

Last I checked our central black hole in our galaxy has an alleged acreation disk parallel with the galactic plane which would be difficult to resolve, since we are basically on the same galactic plane. Looking at another galaxy like m87 would probably give a clearer view of a galactic centre and its carnivore.

Cheers - Dave

I misunderstood your post - so essentially what you're saying is that our black hole can only be viewed edge-on whereas M87 can be viewed face-forward or top-down. I'm looking forward to diving into the papers. I'm thinking there's a lot of data that will spark a whole lot of research projects - as long as they get the money.