A new American civil war

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I'm curious.

Many on (or near) the right suspect and dread a new civil war.

All we've seen is casual mocking from the more left-leaning members.

Is it because they don't think there will be a war, or do they think they will win it?

DB, in my personal opinion only it is just another dimension to their information warfare. I believe they realize that if most people understood their intent, it would ensure the majority of the US population would not go along with their plans. By denying there is any such plot (much in the way they sometimes mock "conspiracy theories" until they turn out to be correct) they provide cover for themselves.

Meanwhile, they keep trying to nudge the political climate to the left through their hoax investigations they love so much to spin, their fake narratives they perpetuate along with a complicit MSM and generally convince Americans that "socialists" and "communists" don't exist.

Of course judging by the way they talk about us they see us as nothing more than an inconvenient obstacle between point A and B.

I would rather be a "roadblock" myself

It could also be that they do not really believe their actions are nearly as serious or detrimental as they are, or they grossly overestimate our willingness to negotiate on our core principles and ideals. They may either think (as I did until recently) that "It can't happen here" or even that (like NK's strategy) that we want to avoid a war so badly that we will give them anything they want

Just my 2c. However I both suspect and dread that we indeed already engaged in a civil war 2.0. Although a "cold war" at this time, perhaps this is what a 21st century civil war in the World's sole superpower looks like. I think those in some of the articles who try to compare 2019 to events in the 1860's could be making a serious miscalculation however

a reply to: JBurns

Except now theyve stopped nudging, and theyve started shoving. Cloward and Piven (sp)

They arent leaving much left though, once you go so far, the only other option to get your way is violence, and I think they are fast approaching that.

a reply to: SailorJerry

And, the Left is so driven by emotion and they find it very hard to control their emotions. It’s only a matter of time.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Then it won’t matter because we will be dead.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: DBCowboy

Then it won’t matter because we will be dead.

Yeah.

You're right.

a reply to: SailorJerry

What?

You are all over the place.

What did you mean by this?

Wait the conservatives, who are pro constitution and many are very strict constitutionalists, like the founders who WROTE that constitution, are the British?

originally posted by: SailorJerry
a reply to: PublicOpinion

At least your ignorant drift into a mad max scenario would be fiscally responsible, with wars on everything and eternal quantitative easing. Too big to fail.

Except they have literally stated that they want to destroy the system. Besides them stating it, look what they are doing, they are quite literally trying to destroy the system as it stands so they can implement their own.

How do you breathe with your head so far in the sand?

That was the question, yes.

How did all that climate change denial and quantitative easing work out for us ignorant folks thus far? Tell me again, I need to know!


a reply to: JBurns

Maybe. Let's simply assume that's all good and true, still...

There wasn't a peep from you during all expansions of countless quantitative easing programs, either. National debt. Good one! Speak to the invisible hand of Agent "Top Secret America", and imagine Trillions in black budgets wasted on Russian "collusions". Bummer.

But to put all whataboutisms aside for you, there's more:

UBI Could Boost Economy by Trillions

Study: a universal basic income would grow the economy

a reply to: DBCowboy

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

Warren Buffett

And who is supposed to argue with that?

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: SailorJerry

What?

You are all over the place.

What did you mean by this?

Wait the conservatives, who are pro constitution and many are very strict constitutionalists, like the founders who WROTE that constitution, are the British?

Im not all over the place at all, its quite concise

Slow down, read it in context with what I said

a reply to: PublicOpinion

UBI...why are the places that have experimented with it (in just select cities) not taken it countrywide and are recommending to end it?

a reply to: SailorJerry

And maybe you need to read the context and comprehend what I said.

let's break it down for you.

Conservative:

Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, human imperfection, hierarchy, authority, and property rights.[1] Conservatives seek to preserve a range of institutions such as monarchy, religion, parliamentary government, and property rights, with the aim of emphasizing social stability and continuity.[2] The more extreme elements—reactionaries—oppose modernism and seek a return to "the way things were"

Who was promoting and enforcing a more conservative political standpoint before the revolution started rolling out? The American colonies or the British empire?

The American revolution whether you like it or not was for a brief moment in history of the US a liberal or extremely left leaning out lash against it's oppressors, the British.

Before this all went down, there was no Constitution, the laws of the land were mainly governed by British rule.
So again, I ask. Who was more conservative, the British, or the citizens of the America? Why did the people flee the oppression of European rule to begin with? was it to hold European values or to change them?

What does it mean to be a 'liberal'?

Liberalism is a political and economic doctrine that emphasizes individual autonomy, equality of opportunity, and the protection of individual rights (primarily to life, liberty, and property), originally against the state and later against both the state and private economic actors, including businesses.

Sure sounds like what the founding fathers wanted, doesn't it?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: DBCowboy

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

Warren Buffett

And who is supposed to argue with that?

So the left sees it as a class war like Red October and the right sees it as a battle for the Constitution.


Sounds about right.

a reply to: strongfp


Not exactly. The Liberalism of the Founding Fathers is way right of the Republican Party. The most liberal amongst them were Laissez-Faire Liberals. What they were left of was Absolute Monarchy. But revisionist history in public indoctrination centers being what it is today...

a reply to: DBCowboy


More like Red Dawn only the socialists are the Russians...which come to think of it.

a reply to: JBurns

I don't think it's here.

Only 50% vote on a good day, and half of that number belongs to one of the two parties. A smaller part are actually current and involved.

We live in an apathetic and uninvolved democracy which is probably one of the problems.

I'd say day to day life is about the same with a little frustration compared to decades prior.

We only see excess tension because we immerse ourselves in it on ATS.

Just my two cents.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Most colonists were apathetic during the revolutionary war. Dunno about participation during the civil war in the 1860's.

But 50% participation is enough to drive even the most reluctant, apathetic person.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Most colonists were apathetic during the revolutionary war. Dunno about participation during the civil war in the 1860's.

But 50% participation is enough to drive even the most reluctant, apathetic person.

Maybe.

I've lived all around the country and still have family in broad areas.

I just don't see any red flags in society. Sure there are highlighted cases because everyone has a camera with instant access to the world in their pocket. But MSM is a reality show now. They run stuff from Twitter.

That's not the narrative, and I think most here would agree.

Honestly DB, I know you have liberal friends. I know it because you're a funny pleasant person who happens to live in Portland so I find it a safe bet to assume this.

Yall are still hanging out. You're a teddy bear who happens to be convicted in what you believe. But you're far from mad at real life people you have relationships with who think differently than you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Of course I have liberal friends, I consider myself a liberal.

Don't know too many leftists though.

The Op has stated that there is a conflict going on in the USA, that the sides are clearly marked down where they are pro constitution forces and those who are anti constitution forces, and that what is at stake is the country, that these people in the country, naming the socialist, communist, progressive and foreign interest, and in short the democrats that are waging this cultural war that these groups are waging a war that is destroying the country.

However there are a few things that should be stated.

Socialism, as many who are on the Right, would proclaim such as bad for the country, often ignore the fact that the US has many ideas and programs that are of a social nature already in place. There is no where one can go in the country without seeing such in action and so is such policies a bad thing? The very definition of socialism is as follows: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
That means the very roads on drives on, the medical system, social security, the police, even the military all have a socialistic core to their very being. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Many of the things that the country takes for granted, have socialistic cores at the very heart. Should we now drop them cause they are based on such? Would you be willing to pay money to drive on a road, like say a toll road? How about water, are you willing to give that up so that way your money does not go into such a system? How about fire fighters, or ems persons?
The right wing, has not been so innocent in their actions, though some made sense and did appeal, but then again, was it an act? At one time the term fiscal hawk, the origins of the Tea Party, had a good idea, about reigning in the spending and starting to pay for many of the programs. The debt was of real important, but low and behold Trump gets elected, and that all seems to have been just a ploy to get elected, and now it is spend baby spend.

And speaking of Trump, funny how when President Clinton was in office, gee the right wing, the republicans were all gung ho to impeach the man over a blow job, even releasing the investigators report to the public to support their side, yet when it comes to Trump, and he gets a free pass, seeming to do no wrong?

Or how about that nuclear option in the Senate that the Republicans at one time had a problem with and when they could have gotten rid of that rule, are not so eager to get rid of it, but are now using it to the fullest extent.

The problems of this country are not just on the heads of the Democrats, but also on the Republicans, that seem to look at them as the second coming and what is even worse, fail to realize that many of what they want, the very laws and legal judgements that they decry as evil and wrong, also give them protections that they now have become accustomed to.

If the fault lies anywhere, it lies with we the People. We re-elect the same people into office, we do not hold them to standards and give them constant passes for their bad behavior. And when one side or the other dares to stand up, see a problem, and correct it, if it is the other political party, then it is bad, and the other side will do anything to see it fail. And what is even worse, is that both political parties will often exploit legal doors that should remain closed. Both political parties do such and what is even worse, is that both use We the People as their political pawns.

a reply to: DBCowboy

If it gets to that point, most of my family and I would already be dead, as we oppose such a thing quite vehemently. So I guess, I wont be around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
I'll pretty much guarantee it.