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A new American civil war

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posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: daskakik


There is in regards to you putting the constitution on a pedestal. I never said anything about the left in my comments.


Right, but I did.

The left desires to REDUCE our state of freedom/liberty

The right *will* preserve our current state of freedom/liberty while always striving to advance personal freedom and individual rights.

No matter what degree of logical acrobatics the left and its apologists engage in, we are unwilling to budge on the matter of personal freedoms and individual liberties. And by forcing the left to quantify their positions (ie: to admit they are working toward decreasing our level of freedom/autonomy/liberty/self-determination) we will always in. Because in the end, this country was built by brave Americans who recognized the cost of having a shining beacon of freedom/liberty

That cost is not currently and never will be too high.
edit on 4/5/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

My original point wasn't about the constitution but about your dumb 100% or tyranny claim.

The constitution only came into it because it doesn't require 100% either. What part of that is giving you a hard time?



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Well, then, knock yourself out with your one man circle jerk.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

It isn't giving me a hard time at all. I've already said that even if you were technically correct that any attempts to infringe upon or nullify the Bill of Rights would result in an immediate hot civil war. We refuse to budge even 1 inch on the unalienable rights of Americans - no matter what the circumstances surrounding it is.

I count myself among this group. Proudly. Hence why I have no problem saying it in an open forum on an account attached to my name.

And we will continue to make sure Americans realize it is the left who seeks to restrict individual rights/liberties and the right who seeks to advance/uphold individual rights/liberties.

We learned the hard way in WW2 with the enemies of freedom/liberty. Appeasement never works.
edit on 4/5/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

You are having a hard time because it is not about the constitution. It is about the fact that the system you set as an example doesn't have a 100% consensus so, according to your previous statement that " any society where the rights of the one can be overrode by the desire of everybody else is not one worth living in", even your constitutional republic "is not one worth living in".

That is some serious cognitive dissonance.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Their unalienable rights.

If 99.99% of people vote to throw somebody off a bridge, should they be tossed?

In a democracy, the answer would be yes.

Republicanism is the person who is about to be tossed retrieving their rifle and contesting the vote.


edit on 4/5/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Right, like nobody has ever been suicided by cop.

People's rights are violated all the time. Unalienable in your unicorn rainbow fart world perhaps?

ETA: So, since the reality of the system you live in is such, what makes it worth living in?

edit on 5-4-2019 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Suicide by cop is an occurrence, but that hardly reflects on the officer. The person is depriving themselves of life by pulling a gun on an officer (or any other person for that matter). When you pull a gun/knife/brick/baseball bat on somebody you should expect to get shot. Those who commit suicide by cop know this, and do so intentionally because they want to die


People's rights are violated all the time. Unalienable in your unicorn rainbow fart world perhaps?


Such as who? When? Can you provide any examples of this or did you just pull this out of the Ether?



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Well if you want to go down that road, history lesson.

Andrew Jackson not only destroyed the remains of the Native American culture east of the Mississippi but caused constant wars on the Plains by overcrowding limited resources, which led to the problems as settlers headed west pre and post Civil War. But one good thing he did was fight the Central Banks.

Abe Lincoln who was pretty Progressive, freeing the slaves and all like consolidating more power within the Federal Government and away from the States, damn near installed the Central Bank during the Civil War with the old greenbacks which were not backed, except by fractional reserve, by gold and silver. Fortunately it ended during the Reconstruction Era post war but the seeds were planted and took root.

50 years later and a gullible Progressive by the name of Woodrow Wilson, ushered in the Federal Reserveand by strange coincidence an Amendment for a direct tax on income and a direct election of Senators, rather than appointment by the home State, because Senators are not supposed to represent the people but the state. The House represents the people. And thus ended the Constitutional guaranteed bicameral legislation.

Progressivism floundered a few years until a firebrand with fireside chats came along named FDR. Yeah he was related to Teddy who was the first Progressive that claimed the name openly but was really just a tree hugger that stole land for parks which was outside the Constitutional reasons for federalizing State lands but not that bad of a reason. Anyhow FDR was pretty much similar to Hitler in that he had power and backing by desperate people enduring a complete economic depression. Now every program introduced by the New Deal was supposed to be temporary. A little embracement of socialism for a quick fix, only the paying of those programs actually extended it into The Great Depression and propaganda to keep it up made everyone a member of the Greatest Generation. But like all socialist ideas, the only program that ended was the CCC’s, the one program of the alphabet soup that actually got people off their asses and working for a living.

Then in 1968, Johnson after killing Kennedy, who was a commie hunter...heck RFK was a lawyer for Joe McCarthy for Pete’s sake, came upon the perfect plan that left the Democrats no choice but to continue to fail further and further left into full Stalinist Marxism, which came with our next guest

Obama and the end of citizenship. Obamacare, a forced purchasing scheme regarding healthcare unless you actually wanted to use it due to not being eligible for a bandaid until you met a $10,000 deductible, was required in direct conflict with the Tenth Amendment because there is no enumerated power granted to the Federal government to require the people to purchase anything. And thus the people were no longer citizens but subjects of th United States when the Supreme Court said, yeah it’s Constitutional. Next case.

But why would free people want to fight such a system?



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

I'll give you one that you will not be able to refute, Bike Lock Guy. Now, it wasn't his rights that were violated but the guy he clocked with the bike lock.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: JBurns
Then sir we will keep up the good fight!!! Thank you for reminding me of the section of the Constitution where it says when it becomes necessary to dissolve the political bands that connect us. Now it is time. Unfortunately the Tea Party was villainized by said media. The two party system is failing.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: Ansuzrune

That would be the Declaration of Independence.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

The Articles of Confederation, which is the US operated under in the beginning until they found they could not collect taxes and needed 100% agreement to pass anything. And oddly enough, still needed that 100% to abandon the Articles and adopt the Constitution. But in order to get that 100% the Bill of Rights as added as Amendments. Which makes them rather sacred to preserving the Union by establishing the Union and expanding the rights of the People with solid definitions including the rights that are not defined and enumerated, yet all federal power is defined and enumerated.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

Yeah, but that 100% was really just 100% of the representatives, which is really a small fraction of the people and most, if not all, were probably elected by a simple majority.

OP's rant about "if 99% of the population wants to ban all firearms, they would be enacting an agenda tyrannical to the remaining 1% who do not" isn't as bad as the shining example they are all hyped up about.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Write a proposed Amendment banning civilian ownership of firearms, send it to your Representative and let it go through the process to see what happens. It will either make it and be added or die in the House, die in the Senate, die in the State approval process, be struck down by the Supreme Court at any point in the process or cause an open rebellion and be struck down to restore the peace as part of a treaty. Or (and this is the most bizarre thing that could happen) it goes all the way and is added as an official Amendment but a new Continental Congress happens and overthrows the sitting government and Constitution by vote and replaces the current system with a new one strengthening restrictions on the Central government in order to better protect the people from tyranny.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

Why, I have no interest in banning civilian ownership of firearms?

My point isn't about guns or the constitution but about the complaint about 99% of a population choosing one thing when the system they are championing doesn't even come close to requiring 100%, 99% or even 75% of a consensus to move an agenda forward.

It is about the hypocrisy which seems to go unnoticed, for whatever reason.
edit on 5-4-2019 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: JBurns

Our current civil war is a battle of information and of public opinion.


Well said. And since the left controls 100% of the social media platforms then we already know what the narrative will be going forward.



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 11:31 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

Wow, Thanks for the great information and history lesson!
I always appreciate when somebody comes along with in depth knowledge and is willing to share

I have to admit, several things there I had barely broached the topic at best. Many more I had read about in isolation, without fully appreciating how interconnected these events really are

It would seem Obamacare isn't the first time our courts have let us down, continually ruling in favor of government encroachment using only the standard of "government's interest in XXX" vs. objectively whether or not the power was allocated to the federal government


Then in 1968, Johnson after killing Kennedy, who was a commie hunter...heck RFK was a lawyer for Joe McCarthy for Pete’s sake, came upon the perfect plan that left the Democrats no choice but to continue to fail further and further left into full Stalinist Marxism, which came with our next guest


What a darn shame this was, I think everybody remembers where they were when they heard JFK had been assassinated, one of the first times I remember genuinely breaking down in tears for this country. I felt like something had been stolen from the nation that we would never get back.. how true this was. Funny thing is I remember Dad saying how Johnson had the most to gain from it, and that his deep connections in Texas were highly suspect...that guilty SOB had the gall to look at Jackie Kennedy and Caroline who he so "graciously" let finish school at the WH. Worse yet is the fact Johnson died without ever paying the piper

"Jack is on the right track" Cheers for bringing back some of these memories

No surprise either was Oswald's communist ideology/connections and the sympathizers in our government who enable(d) this kind of high treason


Obama and the end of citizenship. Obamacare, a forced purchasing scheme regarding healthcare unless you actually wanted to use it due to not being eligible for a bandaid until you met a $10,000 deductible, was required in direct conflict with the Tenth Amendment because there is no enumerated power granted to the Federal government to require the people to purchase anything. And thus the people were no longer citizens but subjects of th United States when the Supreme Court said, yeah it’s Constitutional. Next case.


Bravo
"in direct conflict with the Tenth Amendment because there is no enumerated power granted to the Federal government to require the people to purchase anything."

Yet again our judicial abrogated its duty is a guardian of the Constitution and chose to side with the prevailing political currents of the loudest and most obnoxious... what a shame.

And folks wonder why we continue to reject their liberty-poisoning ideology. They really believe the assumed ends justify the means, no matter who has to be walked on and how many individual rights get trampled on

And the position we are in today reflects this all too well! The only silver lining is that more and more Patriots are waking up to this reality and realizing that if we too abrogate our duty to protect, preserve and defend our Constitution that our rights will end up being legislated or voted away by those who have no concept of the individual or what true liberty means

I can not over state the value of what you posted



posted on Apr, 5 2019 @ 11:56 PM
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originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: JBurns
Then sir we will keep up the good fight!!! Thank you for reminding me of the section of the Constitution where it says when it becomes necessary to dissolve the political bands that connect us. Now it is time. Unfortunately the Tea Party was villainized by said media. The two party system is failing.


2 years ago I would have laughed at this very thought, but now? I agree with and support this completely

You sir are correct, the political institutions we implemented as a nation to keep the peace has failed us miserably. Sadly part of their effort to control the narrative (and thus the "hearts and minds" of our population) was centered around targeting and demonizing the Tea Party and our Just message of a constitutionally limited government mostly fell on deaf ears. Or so it seemed at first! Instead, what I'm finding out today (as we found out in 2016) it seems to have reawakened the spirit of America in so many of our countrymen and women. I have never been prouder to be an American

I believe it was JFK who said "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable" and he was spot on

Personally, I am certain we will never be the one to kick off such violence. It may indeed be their fight to start, but when it does start... it is our war to win.
And we will win, for the United States of America. For the Constitution. For the very notion of justice, Constitutional government and the individual rights/liberties that once made us truly exceptional.

We have no choice but to win, the future of this country, in fact its very soul is what is at stake here. The consequences of failure are too devastating to even leave that as a possibility. By any means necessary, pro-constitution forces will carry the day and earn a much needed victory for the Constitution!

Part of that plan for victory - where the opposition always goes wrong - is that the opposition must be clearly seen by the majority of our people as the belligerents and must also factually be the belligerents. In doing so, they will turn the population against themselves and we will have a major advantage. We must also be prepared to take on America's enemies and fight & win in the information/cyber domains, by spreading the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Lies may be headline grabbers, but like we saw with the Russia hoax they backfire Severely! The best part about the truth is it is tried, true, tested and will not backfire


Patriots like you give me hope for our future. I thank God there are plenty of good folks out there, knowing full well what the risks are and what is at stake here, who stand ready to drop it all to defend our way of life, our great nation and our Constitution

We will never be stronger than we are now. And I think that with love of country, unwavering love of our Constitution, some mistakes-already-made-in-haste by the enemies of America and a little bit of luck... we may just have a year-or-so window here to bring about the kind of meaningful forward motion for the cause of liberty that comes only once every few centuries or so. By forcing them to tip their hand early, we have exposed serious weaknesses in a plot that can only be described as decades in the making

God bless you and every other American patriot who stands up for the Constitution and our Nation ... the deterrent posed by our readiness alone is worth its weight in Gold
edit on 4/5/2019 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2019 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

Keep in mind there is a comical/satirical bent to that history lesson. But is more or less true. Johnson wasn’t the triggerman for instance. But Bobby really did work for McCarthy.

But the Supremes dropping the ball is par for the course, compared to Congressional duties as outlined in the Constitution pawned off on other entities.

But let’s look at a newer enumerated power.


Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


What is missing? Let’s look at the 19th as it is pretty straightforward.


Amendment XIX

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


What is missing...paragraph two. “Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.” You see that paragraph in many other Amendments including a concurrent version with the States in the 18th for Prohibition.

So would the IRS and employers collecting taxes on behalf of the Federal government be appropriate legislation that was granted by enumeration in the 16th for Income Tax? No, it would not. That power to enforce by legislation was not granted. Your Representatives could figure out and write you a tax bill. But the tax code, not a granted power of legislation and therefore unconstitutional. But good luck with that in court.

Federal Reserve Act?


Article 1, Section 8

The Congress shall have power...

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;



So nope. Federal Reserve Act is unconstitutional. But just to be sure let’s check the limits to the States.



Article 1, Section 10.

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility


Nope. The People might retain that right since the People have vast unenumerated rights under the 9th as to accept alternative currencies as legal tender. A dozen eggs for a pound of bacon in simple barter for example.



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