New Zealand removes any reference to Jesus from parliamentary prayer

Old news, but I'm all for it. I say get rid of prayer in government, period.

originally posted by: r0xor
a reply to: Artemis12

What does it matter?

JESUS SAVES.

period.

Remove his name from everywhere that it's written in the world and cyberspace.

He's still going to communicate via the spirit in people's heads, including unbelievers that he taps like Paul through visions. All of the visions people have that lead them to do all sort of good stuff for the kingdom on earth? Had he not put a cross in the sky for Constantine to see before a battle that he then was the victor of, it wouldn't have been an eventual global thing to begin with.

He made that happen when he was taboo and you'd be persecuted if you professed your faith publicly. He doesn't need people to prop him up, especially in a bunch of evil parliaments, houses of government, constitutions, prayers, etc.

Right?

The gospel needed to be spread to the world. No one knows if he really said that or how much extra good natured lies were added onto his words to push agendas for his "kingdom" on Earth to save all of the poor sinners who are destined for eternal hellfire by default upon birth, because Adam & Eve "ate an apple" from Satan, were ashamed of being naked and became much more conservative, committing some sort of epic sin passed on for eternity. Sounds like a threesome to me and I'm not trolling, I'm quite serious.

How are these plans laid out by God reliant upon people spreading the word of them, making people not sin as much or at all and using word of mouth to propagate?

Is reality a game created by God where it's possible to have an armageddon then an afterlife in heaven with millions, billions of friends for infinity but only if we trigger it through our influence and actions as players over time?

The potential is there to beat the game quickly instead of advancing into the far future, tens of thousands of years from now, then no one new gets to play? No exploring the solar system, galaxy someday?

That's all a quixotic, deep illusion. Deception brought about by Satan and by ignorance of God's plan so there's a great deal of ego and sci-fi fantasy involved, dungeons & dragons in the future setting.

If you want people to take your ideas of what gods are and what they want seriously Enough that they are included in any governing system, you’re going to have to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that your ideas are more valid than every other person’s ideas of what a deity is.

When you can prove your claims, I’ll start taking you seriously, until then I’m gonna put you in the same basket of all the other people who claim that their God is the only one.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you guys want a christian theocracy?

I'd be fine with it, honestly. It seems better than the artificially created specter of western "secularism" currently seen in which Christianity takes routine kicks to the nuts while the leadership kneels before any minority religion like Islam and goes to town trying to appease them.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Do you guys want a christian theocracy?

I'd be fine with it, honestly. It seems better than the artificially created specter of western "secularism" currently seen in which Christianity takes routine kicks to the nuts while the leadership kneels before any minority religion like Islam and goes to town trying to appease them.

Do you want real christianity? As expressed in the bible? Or do you want the new agey christianity that ignores most of the bible?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Such as?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Woodcarver

Such as?

Do you really not know the difference?

Do you take the Bible at face value? Or do you exclude the nasty stuff?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm attempting to see where you stand on the issues. Your understanding of the Bible is likely different from my own, I'm just not sure which direction you're facing in regards to it. I lean fundamentalist... although I guess I've also delved a bit into the Eastern religions' incorporation into my beliefs.

My point about being OK with a Christian theocracy is that we're currently living in a theocracy already, it's just a theocracy in which anyone who actually embraces and espouses Christianity is expected to take a back seat while the system panders to all forms of anachronistic BS like Islam, atheism, and mundane pseudo intellectual garbage like Scientology.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm attempting to see where you stand on the issues. Your understanding of the Bible is likely different from my own, I'm just not sure which direction you're facing in regards to it. I lean fundamentalist... although I guess I've also delved a bit into the Eastern religions' incorporation into my beliefs.

My point about being OK with a Christian theocracy is that we're currently living in a theocracy already, it's just a theocracy in which anyone who actually embraces and espouses Christianity is expected to take a back seat while the system panders to all forms of anachronistic BS like Islam, atheism, and mundane pseudo intellectual garbage like Scientology.

I think you are pretending that you have never heard any arguments about christianity. Is there anything in the bible that you disagree with?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Such as?

Matthew 6

2Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most certainly I tell you, they have received their reward.
…
5"When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward.
...
19"Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; 20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
…
24"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can't serve both God and Mammon.

Hebrews 11

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and embraced them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
…
24By faith, Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25choosing rather to share ill treatment with God's people, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time; 26accounting the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt;
…
35Women received their dead by resurrection. Others were tortured, not accepting their deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36Others were tried by mocking and scourging, yes, moreover by bonds and imprisonment. 37They were stoned. They were sawn apart. They were tempted. They were slain with the sword. They went around in sheep skins and in goat skins; being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts, mountains, caves, and the holes of the earth.
39These all, having had testimony given to them through their faith, didn't receive the promise,

Some verses from your book.

a reply to: pthena

You conveniently left out the fact that Jesus did instruct the believers to pray.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

He wasn't calling for removal of prayer to God.

I have no idea why you quoted Hebrews 11...

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Is there anything in the bible that you disagree with?

Not really, no. I relate more to God's attitude in the Old Testament and certainly wouldn't say I am even remotely a model Christian... but I don't disagree with any of His Word.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I have no idea why you quoted Hebrews 11...

As a contrast to Christian Privilege.
It was also in response to your answers to Woodcarver concerning your statement:

My point about being OK with a Christian theocracy is that we're currently living in a theocracy already, it's just a theocracy in which anyone who actually embraces and espouses Christianity is expected to take a back seat while the system panders to all forms of anachronistic BS like Islam, atheism, and mundane pseudo intellectual garbage like Scientology.

Christian privilege
Christian hegemony
The concept of hegemony describes the ways in which a dominant group, in this case mainly U.S. Protestant Christians, disseminate their dominant social constructions as common sense, normative, or even universal, even though most of the world's inhabitants are not Christian. Christian hegemony also accepts Christianity as part of the natural order, even at times by those who are marginalized, disempowered, or rendered invisible by it. Thus, Christian hegemony helps to maintain the marginality of other religions and beliefs.

From what little I know of the New Testament, I conclude that the authors had no expectation that large portions of the World would ever become majority Christian. It seems evident that they expected an eschatological event to occur in their lifetimes which would end the present age and usher in a new age. This probably didn't happen.

So here we are in an unforeseen situation in which it is politically and socially advantageous to publicly label, announce, and even parade oneself as a Christian. That's not what the authors envisioned as their narrow less travelled path.


Disclaimer: I'm not a New Zealander. My opinions are irrelevant as to how Parliament does its thing.

I think this is great at the thing.

a reply to: Trueman

I think the whole Planet is about to get a giant ass Wedgie.