Russia Is Dumping U.S. Dollars for Gold

originally posted by: a325nt

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Russia sure is making some big moves.

Messing in usa elections.
The Ukraine.
Super missiles.
New subs.
Venezuela.
Moving away from the dollar.

And If China calls in it's markers...could get nasty, very nasty!!!

USA wouldn't pay up, simple as that. What are they going to do, start ww3 and correct the world population problem?

When you have morons leading the countries, anythings possible....

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: liejunkie01
I have been buying fractional gold for a few months now.

Coupd that be considered dumping my fist for gold? I'm not Russian though, just saying.

I just want to be ready as I can be for/if something should happen.

Hasn't WWII taught you anything?

Remember what happened to the Jews? They were stripped of all their gold and precious metals/jewels. It was melted down and hoarded for the the Nazi cause.

I said above that I would rather gold but that's only because Crypto and paper money will go the way of the dodo should the lights go out. In truth, I believe it wont matter what we think we have as supposed worth. In a pinch, there will be few types of currency and it likely wouldn't involve metals or paper. It'll be:

- Nourishing Food
- Clean Water
- Medicine
- Shelter
- Safety

All the gold in the world wouldn't be able to purchase or trade for these things if the SHTF.

Well, I'm not Jewish.

With that being said, I thought that the op was about an economic collapse, which would indicate that there would still be a functioning government with a system in place for some kind of trade and barter.

Was there not a type of "something" with a monetary value to work and trade for during the great depression. Yes money was scarce, but there was still a such thing as money, trade, and bartering.

If people actually believe that the people in power in the U.S. are really going to lay down and let their way of life completely go to the way side, then I have news for you. I have been saying it for almost ten damned years on this site. There are three words which it seems that the so called "enlightened preppers" of ATS and all over the place seem to forget. Those three words are:

CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT

Now to me there are an unlimited number of SHTF scenarios in which can devastate a community, country, or worldwide.

Since the OP seems to be referring to the economic side of a SHTF scenario how are we to know exactly how bad it will get? Will it be like Venezuela, South Africa, or any other smaller country that really does not operate like us here in the U.S.?

So with that being said and trying to refrain from rambling all day, it is wise to be invested in the list you supplied above and I will also add to that list some metals to trade and barter with, you know just in case it really isnt that bad for many people like the ones that did take the time to hoard a few ounces of some shiny metal, as some like to call it here.

Anything to possibly give my family and I an advantage to weather through a depression like "episode" will be well worth the extra time and fiat dollars to attempt to make it through such tough times.

I am a believer in bitcoin and cryptos (for the future), but if the lights go out it will be worthless. If we have a societal collapse/war, cryptos will still carry relevancy beyond central bank currencies for some time. Even though cryptos are digital they are fairly robust. Cryptos can theoretically survive over the ham radio system until the internet is restored. The ham radio system will survive longer than the economic world order will but counting on ham operators to keep the Bitcoin network up could proove foolish. If global civilization totally collapses and it's all about survival (aesteroid or super volcano level), gold will be a burden and barter will be the key. Gold and silver will become king during the rebuilding process as civilization is restored.

Never forget the golden rule: 'He who owns the gold makes the rules.' If you want to own metals for economic safety you must have the physical metal yourself. There are a lot of shady games in the metal market to take any chances with anything other than possession.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Can't blame them really. We never should have given up that standard...

Basing a currency on the "faith and credit" of any entity controlled by human beings is a huge mistake. Of course if they hadn't dumped the gold standard, it would have been much more difficult to drastically inflate and devalue our currency

In any case, the sooner we do this the better. Yes, massive (and I mean massive: somewhere around 99.9%) cuts to the federal government will be needed and a balanced budget too (ie: spending money responsibly and not dumping the burden on tax payers)

All in all, good for Russia. And although I am a fan of crypto currency, I personally trust in metals but mostly usable items over crypto currencies and fiat

a reply to: SouthernForkway26

All in all, I have to say it will be better this way.

The more BS I see spewed the more I am convinced the only forward is to start over completely

I guess those of us who spent the last 20 years preparing for precisely this type of scenario weren't so dumb after all

a reply to: a325nt

They could stop trading with us.

Research what it is that we buy from china.

Then find out how long it would take for us to make those things for ourselves.

You might think that china would never do that because they trade so much with us. But i think if pushed far enough they would.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Gold will be just as worthless as any currency if the power goes out. Food and water will serve as currency standards if drama ever gets to the level you're talking about. It's actually kind of comical to think that people are going to hoard gold, then think it is going to do something for them. Even gold markets are over inflated at this point in time... priorities would most likely shift to health standards of which gold can do little to nothing for.

Meanwhile back on the ranch, block chain technologies are drastically rewriting currency exchange. Never in Earth's history has a new asset vehicle class been seen, nor has the internet introduced its own currency 30 years in. Block chain currency transfer removes the 3rd party trust factors seen with all forms of currency prior to Bitcoin.

The style and currency choices of investing aren't what people should worry about. Keep up with thee crypto doom porn and it may be left in the dust and poor that you have to look forward to pre EMP entry. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to avoid something based on the fear and unknowns of it... before anything even happens.

The U.S. just approved Bitcoin ETF's. Bitcoin has been trading on futures markets for a while now. It gets regulated more and more every day, yet its worthless? It shouldn't be so hard to see that when Wall St. gets involved, it has already been validated as a currency. In just a few short months players such as JP Morgan went from saying the same exact things you are saying, to now having their own crypto engines in bloom. The writing is on the wall... I am speaking based on that writing... not my personal beliefs so much here.

The one aspect of gold that you touched on yet may be missing while latching on so tightly to gold is the U.S.'s gold vs. USD standard. See, when all currencies were forced to the USD standard, it equates to gold being matched to the value of the dollar a but more than people may anticipate. So, when the known to be flawed fiat falls, so does gold with it this time around... because the gold was hijacked for USD. The U.S. already spent the gold, and reprint it in paper in the form of a 2% forced inflation rate. Buying gold is not much different than buying paper these days. Your following quote supports this theory...

Since the US has been off the gold standard, you can't just go to a store and buy a bottle of water with it.

Hell, stay with gold for all I care. Just don't get pissed when Bitcoin value skyrockets while all other currencies remain flat. When SHTF, the tooling bought with Bitcoin will urge those in need to take what is needed, and sadly it just may be those that hide from Bitcoin that are the first targets.

Actually, I really do get where you're coming from though. My mind sees the crypto world not much differently than fiat and gold worlds. Gold was manipulated by the USD for decades now. Bitcoin may just simply show to be the next round of manipulated currency exchange. Now that the USD is falling flat, the world will see a U.S. propping up of Bitcoin as the USD falls more and more flat over time. It may just be history repeating itself all over again.

I will take a peer to peer currency exchange any day over the need to trust a 3rd party entity to take a cut for being a money changer. Keep your gold, but be ready to die for it is my advice... it may look nice and shiny or be great at reflecting heat, but you won't be able to eat it if an EMP goes off. It just may be Bitcoin that affords one to buy a nice supply of food and supplies to manage an EMP though... savings accounts sure as hell aren't able to do it. Financial markets are so bad now that one has to pay money changers to save... what a joke.

The internet has its own currency now. Couple your credit card with your pocket robot, and you pretty much already signed off on internet money. Most people that hate Bitcoin are already 80% to using it without even realizing it. China has went fully digital... taking aim at the USD no differently than Russia's gold play is meant for.

Now, people have a choice. They can get with the times and try to keep up in the fast changing world, or they can cling to their comforts... comforts which have already shown to be extremely manipulated. It's why I say and believe... gold is old people's money. What we have here financially is no different than choosing to listen to music on vinyl or MP3. At some point in time old people will say, "no thanks, I will stay in my comfort zone and work the needle on the vinyl money while wealth diverts to the new age of money." They'll have the tool to fix concerns in their pocket the whole time, but don't care to read the instructions on how to use it. That's when the new age of money changers swoop in and take the scraps left over to keep a food line coming for the unwilling.

People think their pocket robots are simply access to their bank these days, when in reality, pocket robots have turned into banks. Skipping on learning internet money standards will cause many premature deaths for baby boomers. Following what the nursing home patients do in an EMP.

Keep in mind... a lot of "what if's" are in the EMP scenario you created. Skipping all of the realities to get to the 'what if' may result in being poor in more ways than one.

a reply to: ttobban

I get what you're saying but you're looking at it from a perfect world perspective.

In a perfect world, sure it sounds great but sadly, in the real world, you need oversight to prevent theft and corruption. Unfortunately when you give something over to someone to oversee it, mouths start watering and that theft and corruption continues. So in reality, I'd rather see some oversight than none at all. One has a greater chance for problems. Unfortunately neither is a good way of money management. Crypto worse than both.

In a perfect world or any other for that matter, using real physical gold is ideal. Gold, silver, copper, platinum. Ahhhh D&D had it right!

When you start trading something of worth for something not worth less than fire kindle, you've been duped. It's the biggest scam of history. We traded gold for paper with pretty pictures on it. So now we should trade our pretty paper for imaginary binary zeros and ones?


Doesn't that sounds crazy? I'll trade you all your paper money for imaginary currency any day.

I have a billion imagincoins I'll trade you for a couple million american dollars or a couple million in gold and or silver.

a reply to: StallionDuck

We seemingly see where each side debates from... it's just our tactics of dealing with it that may vary some.

Read any Navy Seal book, and you may notice how they always plan a fallback measure in case plan A doesn't work. Bitcoin is most likely the U.S.'s fallback plan to a fallen fiat system. It should be seen as odd that Bitcoin came out at the same time of the 2008 financial collapse... by an unknown entity nonetheless. If one looks into who holds the patents for the very complicated algorithm that Bitcoin uses (SHA -256), and it will be found that the U.S. government holds those patents. Those two coincidences may not be as much of a coincidence that one thinks.

Today, all global economies operate off of a derivative standard. That means all forms of currency are currently worthless, and that the entire global economy is betting on where the economic standards MAY be... not where reality lives i current times.



They took it, hid it, and it can't even be validated due to central bank networking obligations. Now, our elected officials can't even access gold reserves for validation, yet people are thinking back to the 1800's as if gold is still worth anything. It may be a hard lesson to learn that gold was devalued much the same that fiat was. But, how is that being ignored... placing a speculated value on what gold will do if and when something happens? We can't see electrons travel, but they operate computers... we know that. The need to hold, see, and admire the shininess of the valued goods matters NONE to me. Old people will have to embrace digital computer electron fairy's in order to even see a bit of value in financial diversification in the new age of internet money. it just seems odd that people are still leaned on for trust as opposed to trusting mathematics. It's almost like you're staring at a horse and a model T, and you're choosing the horse because you don't understand how the engine and transmission work together. That person will be miles back on the trail, talking about how those pesky cars will see what's coming for them if and when they ever catch up to them with Mr. Ed...

The mere reality that the next recession will be HUGE and tied to inflation, will result in a complete meltdown of fiat. Being that gold is directly tied/linked to fiat... gold will crumble in value no differently than fiat will. If gold prevails, diversification will step in.

Now... back to that plan B... the 2008 Bitcoin release. The government knows full well that gold will tank along with fiat, so the fallback plan that fails to include 'Rothschild debt obligation' was put into place. Some may call it Bitcoin, while others call it the new global currency system that evades central banks... but it is real and here to stay.

Trust will be removed from currency exchange... that's a near certainty. When the trust is gone people won't even trust that one's gold is even real, let alone want it. The only currencies that will be validated will remain on open source and peer to peer ledgers for as long as power and computers are around. Remove the power and its going to be a kill or be killed scenario of which currencies will mean next to nothing.

Thinking out of the box may be seen as crazy, but two crazies don't make a right... we have to do what feels best for us in live or die scenarios. I see those leaning on gold as crazy since they already let the U.S. manipulate and hide it, yet feel it will return to glory once they get it back. That's highly unlikely, as the U.S. already spent those reserves. Keeping either paper or gold as money is no different than going digital.

The primary difference between digital spenders and fiat/metal spenders is the trust factor. The digital route removes 3rd party administrators... the same can't be said for fiat or metals. All systems should be seen as crazy, which is my main point. Meanwhile, my digital accounts provide massive gains, while my liquid assets plummet on a slow long slope. My actions are based on current times... not what MAY happen if and when the stars align. Hell, digital profits have been so kind, that buys of precious metals are essentially free at this point in time. The gold is better served at improving circuit boards anymore... it's too expensive for the finite supply and demand. If digital asset investments were removed from gold investments, then gold would be way less in cost as a result... crypto props it up a good bit. Gold pretty much needs crypto at this point in time.

If you want to trade me your lead for some crypto I am game though... that's going to be the most useful metal if the SHTF. My gold will be sold when you all want to buy it so badly. I have some, see it as over valued, and am ready to dump it all when it climbs higher. The new age investors operate on pump and dump premises... which will only assist in tanking gold when the fear climbs a bit higher. Until that time comes though... we're all just a bunch of crazies for allowing things to get this way to begin with. It may make cents/sense to diversify though... leaning on one vehicle is about as dumb as crazy can get.

Do you even know that Bitcoin is validated by global computing power, of which costs a whole lot of money to achieve? Bitcoin is also the largest hacker bounty program the world has ever seen. It would currently cost well over 1.5 billion dollars to get into Bitcoin block chain for even a minute. How you are calling digital money imaginary is just amazing. Are you really trying to say that 1 Bitcoin is not worth $4,000? It is not imaginary by any means that a whole lot of Bitcoin investors bought a whole bunch of gold with capital gains. Hell, the very ones you are laughing at now are the ones that are buying the majority of gold most likely. That's right... your gold isn't as important as most would believe. Bitcoin investors with a history are already set up for the fears you are seemingly still prepping for. If the power goes out, most Bitcoin investors will have way more gold than the fiat loyalists... I can promise that. They pretty much already do.

In the end it shouldn't be a matter of which side is better. Following the money while earning a piece of the pie is the focus of choice. Banks are rushing to crypto and block chain... not gold. Instead of focusing on what the individual in a sea of commercial entities thinks, just watching what the banks do may serve as a better example.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Gold, silver, copper, platinum. Ahhhh D&D had it right!

Had it right is correct. Unfortunately for wizards the world shows to mimic Star Wars and Star Trek more and more as time goes. Using D&D rules of engagement in a world of crazy technologies is like comparing fiat & gold to crypto.

When dragons arise from dungeons again, I will go fully into gold... how about that for compromise?

a reply to: ttobban

The U.S. just approved Bitcoin ETF's.

Not yet.

a reply to: ttobban

We're going to have to draw lines as to where we're standing on each situation because we agree on all but one.

- Post Apocalypse: Food, Ammo, Meds, etc.

- Ancient Times: Gold and Gems

- Today:

Today is where we differ. Here is why:

- Power outage - No access to your bitcoins. Can't move them from one place to another.
- HAM Radio? I sure hope you found a way to wallet all your "coins" before the power went out and also a way to transfer.
- Dollar Fails? What are you going to base the value of the Bitcoin on? It still requires a dollar value.
- Bitcoin Value? Sorry, still relies on the dollar or any other currency.

There are other issues. Bitcoin has been around 10 years and change already. Today, there are still major issues:

- There are roughly 17 million bitcoins out there. Only 4 million left to go which requires serious tech and time to do it.
- Out of that 17 million, 1 whole million coins have been stolen. (That we know of). NOT including other crypto coins. $20,000,000,000 in worth at its highest point.
- In the FIRST HALF of 2018, OVER a BILLION $$$ in Crypto had been stolen.
- Countless exchanges have been hacked since the beginning.
- No oversight stopping the inflation (Illegal on the stock market but not crypto?). People have been artificially inflating and deflating BC since its inception.
- No laws for the protection of your BC. The only laws in place are based on laws NOT relating to BC. Hacking, Fraud, Drugs, Laundering, Tax evasion etc.
- There is no authority or responsibility should your coins get stolen. It is not legal tender. Just because I can buy a Lambo with it does not make it legal tender. I'm sure I can buy a lambo with a block of gold or 10,000 camels if someone would want either.
- If you lose your bitcoins in a hack or someone steals them, you can barely trace them if at all.
- Computers all over the world are getting locked out in exchange for bitcoins. No way to track them down. (If this were legal tender, you could very well track them down) People are using an untraceable tool that has value to take from you and you can't do anything about it.
- Bitcoin was made successful off the back of drugs and money laundering.

Let's look at other issues, mentioned once before above:

Bitcoin Exchanges (You know, that place where you trade, buy, sell and store your Bitcoins and other crypto:
- June 2011: Bitcoin user loses $500,000 in bitcoin to hackers
- August 2011: Wallet service MyBitcoins disappears from the Web
- March 2012: Hacked Web host leads to stolen bitcoins
- August 2012: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme is shut down
- September 2012: More exchanges get hacked, shut down
- February 2014: Hackers bring down the world’s then-largest exchange - 750,000 Bitcoins stolen.
- January 2015: Bitstamp exchange is hacked
- August 2016: Another exchange loses 120,000 bitcoins to hackers

That's just some of the stuff you can read about Here

Cyber Hacks/Attacks for Crypto are fairly easy to do. If you have some moderate skill, you can find the tools to do the job for you or you can simply do it yourself.

Your wallet can be hacked
- Hackers had created a way to snoop millions of computers through a weak spot found on most computers at the time to see if that computer had a wallet on it. Guess what happened? People were getting ripped one after the other. If you have an internet connection, you're vulnerable. Intranet as well.

Sure there are tools to help protect your loot but they're not full proof. It's like Raid... It only works until the roaches become immune and then another formula is needed. Same with hacks. You're only as safe as your tools and your firewalls and many hackers can simply get through that if they really wanted to.

Sure, YOU might have some knowledge about keeping yourself safe to some extent but you're not the only one out there with a stash.

Many countries have banned BC and BC mining. It's only a matter of time before it's banned here.

Exchanges, where you buy, sell, trade and for many, store your coins, often get hacked, as shown above. That list shows a VERY SMALL portion of the sites that have been hacked. Crazy thing... Most of the BIG exchanges were hacked by their own people. Anyone can have an exchange. Billy in mom's basement can have one too if he has some coding skill. Doesn't sound very safe.


All in all, my point is... Crypto is like keeping your money on a debit card. It's safe because no one can pull from it, until someone steals your card and your pin. Wait... no... It's far easier than that... And, you really have no way of finding it if it is stolen. No one is going to care about your 10 bitcoins. Not a soul.


Way too risky. I played with Crypto quite a bit since 2011. In the end, it's such a high risk, I don't know why anyone in their right mind would put money into it, no matter weather it's spare cash or not. People got lucky... Now people are losing their savings on it like you would in a casino.

If you say this is a great thing, then surely you can say the same about a casino.


Imagine... 20 BILLION DOLLARS. All that from ONE exchange. You walk into a bank and take 20B. Can they track you? Bet your arse. 20B in bitcoin? hahaha Good luck!

a reply to: StallionDuck

A lot of what you're saying is quite valid... I get it. Honestly, Bitcoin is a first generation technology, and there's later generation coins that are of my preference due to a lot of the reasons you mentioned. In the end, I keep myself protected as possible. If the SHTF, my logic speculates that grabs for cash and gold will fall in line with a lot of the troubles that crypto can run into.

If you check back at my initial post I brought up the lack of Nakamoto's identity and regulation as a severe problem with crypto. Regulation is on the way though, and the introduction of a decentralized asset vehicle class will force people to better learn the ins and outs of investing properly. Regardless of what may happen during a mass chaos event, trust networks of whatever variety will suffer badly due to decentralized options existing.

You're only as safe as your tools and your firewalls and many hackers can simply get through that if they really wanted to.

Cold wallets may be able to get entered by a hacker, but they have yet to access and move the funds of good cold storage wallets. If one can remember a sequence of specific words, then one can access their cold storage safely... without trust of a 3rd party entity.

People did get lucky, sure. Nobody could have predicted a vale increase as was seen. It found good support for a few dollars, then exploded to over $300. Profits were taken and money removed from crypto to settle tax debts. It settled 90% below peak, then profits went back in. Price spiked to $19,000 and the cycle gets repeated. Buying any asset at peak prices speaks to poor investing skills...

So, here is Bitcoin... almost 90% below peak value again. The bulk of people investing in crypto are doing so with free money. The tough crypto decisions live for those that are out of the cryptosphere... not for the ones involved.

www.cnbc.com...

Here's a good example of what we're both talking about. A stupid day of celebrated lying may have caused real life monetary distribution system spikes... indicating how absurd crypto can be. On the flip side of that absurdity, Bitcoin value climbed almost 25% in one day. Balances of value increased, so taking some for more profits is once again at play.

I can buy into the theory that crypto is too risky and too much of a wild west scenario to risk, but pulling gains while the masses prepare for the what if's of time seems to be working thus far. Had I been on the flat side of crypto I'd almost guarantee that I'd agree with everything you say.

All global financial networks are playing casino games. It is when I included fiat and gold into the casino menus of trust standards that urged me to crypto to begin with. It's the bankers I stalk for speculative insight to play casino games. Bankers are drooling to get into block chain powered currencies, and they are investing BILLIONS into its implementations. If those billions were being pushed to gold, I'd be heavy on gold.

No matter where one invests, I'd always encourage investors to learn to not lose money before they aim to gain money. Investing knowledge demands increase as the systems become more complicated. While speculation of future realities live on, what if holding crypto value was the only one with any value in a chaos scenario? Unlikely? Sure, but its a long range guess no differently than any one guess is.

It just seems a safer bet to not lean on any one vehicle, and diversify across the choices since it's all a speculative guess anyway... that's all.

***ADDED***

www.coindesk.com...

Insurance protections and safety within the cryptosphere is increasing as time goes on too.

a reply to: JinMI

Thanks... didn't eve notice I said ETF's. I meant to indicate that Future's Market was approved... short trading. The ETF debacles have apparently been consuming more energy than I thought.