Are these SAM sites at Groom Lake?

I am wondering if anybody can help ID these two remote sites at the far South end of the base?

In some locations, I have seen these referred to as some sort of engine test sites but one of the ATS FSME's was able to identity another location on site as a "Hush House" which would be used for testing loud engines

(here is the location ID'd as the Hush House)



It leaves me to wonder whether they simply have multiple locations for testing these kinds of engines or whether the remote locations on the South end of the base are for Surface to Air missile systems. Reason I ask is because I recall seeing a similar deployment/configuration on imagery (Google Earth) when Russia deployed its S-300 air defenses in Syria. I know they also like to test our latest and greatest technology against adversarial technology so is it possible this could be something similar to their "red flag" exercises only with SAMs vs. aircraft?

Anyhow, thought this was fairly interesting to say the least.

If it helps, here are some photos of known Patriot missile installations (both in Japan and Qatar)





JB

a reply to: JBurns

There are quite a few sites that have various radars mounted. You can see several of them in the valley around Tonopah. They also have mobile simulators that they drive around the range.

a reply to: JBurns

Those are engine test cells. They were originally built for Project OXCART. The "hush house" near the North Taxiway was built more recently. The difference is that a test cell is used for an engine by itself. A hush house can accommodate an airplane with the engine installed.

A "Hush House" is a common sight at many Air Bases which do heavy maintenance. They're used for full power aircraft and engine testing.

I've built a couple of them. The long tail looking thing out the back is kind of a blast trench to deaden the sound and diffuse the exhaust, similar in concept to what a rocket launch pad uses.

Although your street level picture is somewhat distorted (in the x and y axis'), that's exactly what they look like.

I could tell some funny / hair-raising stories about what it takes to build one of those puppies! (and some of the "wild"life in places like Minot, ND...and I'm not referring to antelopes and deer either!)

Notthing mysterious here.

ETA - Pretty impressive to see one in action, and some big ass anchors holding everything down! Sounds like the apocalypse!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
A "Hush House" is a common sight at many Air Bases which do heavy maintenance. They're used for full power aircraft and engine testing.

I've built a couple of them. The long tail looking thing out the back is kind of a blast trench to deaden the sound and diffuse the exhaust.

Although your street level picture is somewhat distorted, that's exactly what they look like.

I could tell some funny / hair-raising stories about what it takes to build one of those puppies! (and some of the "wild"life in places like Minot, ND...and I'm not referring to antelopes and deer either!)

Not much mysterious here.

I want to know that of which you speak!

a reply to: Flesh699

What, about Hush Houses, or wildlife?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I want to know about the critters.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: JBurns

There are quite a few sites that have various radars mounted. You can see several of them in the valley around Tonopah. They also have mobile simulators that they drive around the range.

Thanks Zaphod! I figured you or one of the other FSMEs here would know

Really interesting to get a rare glimpse (as much as possible) at the way Area 51 operates

originally posted by: Shadowhawk
a reply to: JBurns

Those are engine test cells. They were originally built for Project OXCART. The "hush house" near the North Taxiway was built more recently. The difference is that a test cell is used for an engine by itself. A hush house can accommodate an airplane with the engine installed.

I appreciate the reply Shadowhawk

That makes a lot of sense, I never understood the difference between the test cell and the whole airplane. I thank you for the explanation

I have personally always had a tough time differentiating between the A-12s and SR-71.. what a great period of time to remember. I recall having a hint of curiosity in that time, which kind of started after Gary Powers was shot down in a U-2 but nothing like I imagined. Especially with how it is today, being able to see all the juicy details (OK-most of the details) on these incredible aircraft

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That is really something else FCD! I do apologize for the distorted picture, I had stupidly got to thinking it was some sort of underground tunnel or walkway.. A good chance to show off my lack of knowledge on the topic...

Had to be something seeing one of these in action, I can only imagine what kind of counter weight you need to hold back one of those

I could tell some funny / hair-raising stories about what it takes to build one of those puppies! (and some of the "wild"life in places like Minot, ND...and I'm not referring to antelopes and deer either!)

Ah now that would make one heck of a campfire story, there is just something about these types of buildings and aircraft in general that draws me in

I really appreciate the reply, and sharing your own knowledge and experience with these

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I want to know about the critters.

Glad I am not the only one!

a reply to: Tarzan the apeman.

Well, suffice it to say the dear and the foxes get awful lonely in a town with nothing but cold and wind and for some odd reason, when we were there, the does outnumbered the bucks by about 5 to 1. I think I'd violate T&C's if I went much further than that.

Are these SAM sites at Groom Lake?

No their landing pads for alien spaceships.

Duh.

a reply to: JBurns

In my lifetime, I never thought I would hear someone say..."Now don't bend the building!"

And...they weren't referring to the Hush House, because those things are built like fortresses!

You see, I worked for an aerospace fabricator in Utah during the 80's and we won several contracts to build Hush Houses for the Air Force. The hush house design (at that time) required the the above grade portion of the actual test facility to be erected with a series of single transverse steel beams, over and under which a very specialized skin would be attached with this exotic insulation between the two layers. So, it looked like a series of croquet wickets, all single steel members from end to end. The ones we built were about 120' wide and about 30' tall. I want to say they were about 120' long too. The buildings had to withstand incredible forces.

So the challenge we had to figure out was how to get straight wide-flange steel beam bent into a giant upside down "U" shape. A beam which would be 120' long with a 30' arch in it. BTW...this arch I refer to is known as "camber" in steel terms. Then we had to figure out how to get this monstrous piece of steel from Utah all the way to the base (rinse and repeat about 12 times for each building). The first one we did was at Minot AFB in Minot North Dakota.

Anyway, in order to induce the camber to these steel beams we had to bend them, but how do you "bend" something so big? The Engineering teams worked with the fabrication teams and we figured out a way to use structure of one of the big fabrication shops as a counter-force. We'd roll these 20 ton beams into the facility on these specially made dollies and chain the ends down to specially made anchor points on the floor. Then we used a series of overhead cranes and chainfalls to start applying tension to points along the beam at different angles. As this was happening we'd apply heat along the top flange of the beam so it would stretch. The process took a couple weeks for each of the first ones (our times improved as we learned tricks along the way). There was so much force involved we actually had to reinforce the fabrication shop structure (I say "shop", but it was really more like a plant) so we wouldn't crush the building from the inside. This resulted in management issuing us the directive to not "bend the building" in the process of manufacturing these support members.

(Note - They never knew how close we actually came to really doing it! There were times when you could put a 6 foot level or straight edge on the vertical columns of the building and actually see the building squatting down under the force!!)

One of the tricky parts was, as the camber was brought into the beam the end points (base plates) moved inward along the floor, so our anchor points on the floor had to constantly move as the beam arched. So this meant the forces across the counter-force structure (our shop) were constantly moving and changing. Once we got some about 15' of camber into the steel we could begin using these giant hydraulic jacks to push the ends toward the middle, this in conjunction with the overhead cranes pulling upward (at multiple angles).

It was a pretty interesting process, and not one a lot of people in the world could have pulled off.

Transporting these beams on the custom made trailers from Utah to places like Minot was a whole other adventure. Probably should save that one for another post.

DBL

a reply to: JBurns

When the Guard went from F-4s to F-15s they lost their hush house. After that, for many years, they had to run engines on an open air pad. It was pretty interesting to see an Eagle engine sitting on a cart running.

We had to take an F-16 with a bad engine over one day to do an afterburner run. They had that sucker chained just about every place you could think of that didn't interfere with the intake or exhaust, including dropping the tail hook and chaining the hell out of it.

You might want to turn your volume down for this, love the sound of the engine cone at 1:16 when it goes narrow

F-16 engine in a hush house again might want to turn your volume down

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

My favorite hush house video will probably always be the engine leaving the room.

a reply to: Zaphod58
I'm not sure if this is the one you're talking about ?