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If healthcare is important, shouldn't it be bi-partisan?

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posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 08:09 PM
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See, that’s part of the problem as I see it. In America, everything is a partisan, i.e. political, issue. Name one thing that politicians don’t get involved in, or at least try to get involved in. No, I’m not really throwing that out there as a challenge; this is ATS - somebody will come up with something . lol

But ... think about it for a minute .. food, shelter, utilities, manufacturing, jobs, education, etc. ... everything is a political concern! Because politics is about differences in ideology.

But I digress..

In my opinion, the real problem with health care is twofold:

1. Everyone involved is trying to make a profit, and more often than not, a BIG profit. Therefore, the actual end goal of healthcare is lots of customers buying lots of expensive product. Think about that. Healthy people don’t need health care, except for accidents. Thus the goal is NOT healthy people, it’s people who stay alive but need lots of care, like drugs, treatments, therapies, procedures, etc. The health care system is most successful, or profitable, when people are sick!

2. There are too many things in the “modern” world which are making us sick. Pollution, preservatives, antibiotics, hormones, pesticides, stress, sedentary jobs and lifestyles, toxic chemicals, excess (and often hidden) sugar, refined carbohydrates, salt, etc. in our food and drink, alcohol consumption and the social acceptance of it, “keeping up with the Joneses,” poor education .. I could keep on for quite a while but if you think about it you can just as well add to the list yourself. Furthermore, they don’t - and won’t - teach us about real, effective ways to stay healthy. Nutrition guidelines are a joke, and any natural products such as herbal and fruit extracts which actually can help prevent disease or assist your body in fighting disease, are suppressed and discredited.

In nursing school I learned that most people take at least one prescription routinely, and the older you get the more likely you are to be a victim of polypharmacy, or taking multiple prescriptions that interact with each other. Some people, especially the “elderly,” are often taking at least one drug only to counteract the side effects of oher drugs!

Personally, I think the biggest conspiracy of all is how “they” are making us sick and keeping us sick by throwing drugs at every problem. Would health care be such an issue if most people were in the natural state of good health that their bodies constantly strive to achieve? I think not.

Heike




posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

No.

Health care is not a basic human right.

You rely on other human beings and their labor and service in order for you to have that care. If you persist in believing that health care is a right, then you also persist in believing you have the absolute right to the labor and service of other human beings. We used to have a class of people who thought that way and the class of people whose labor and services we felt we had a right to were legally reduced to owned property to be bought and sold at our him.

We had to fight a war to end that practice.

You might be familiar with it from your history lessons. I'd prefer we not go back to that time.



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



Health care is not a basic human right.


According to the United Nations, it is.


Human rights is moral principles or norms that describe certain standards of human behaviour, and are regularly protected as legal rights in municipal and international law. Everyone born in this world have human rights that must be protected by the law. According to United Nations, there are 30 basic human rights that recognized around the world.



Article 25. Right of social service

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children shall enjoy the same social protection.



www.un.org...
hrlibrary.umn.edu...
skyrockliving.com...



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

And the United Nations has zero jurisdiction as any kind of actual government too.

So, do you believe you have the absolute right to the goods and services produced by others? If you do, then what right do you have to your own person and property? Understand that the US Constitution legally guarantees you the basic unalienable right to those two things: your person and property.



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Very simply, healthcare is not a right because it is contingent on others to provide.



Be that as it may, TBTB don't make it easy (or legal, in some cases) to take care of one's health themselves.

Perhaps instead of arguing over whether or not HC is a right or not, maybe it's high time to rethink whether or not we have the right to be taught general non-surgical treatments. I'm not talking about HS health class, but rather, how to properly and hygienically stitch one's own minor wound if necessary, set their own broken limb as a stop-gap til a doctor can examine it, etc. Basic nutrition in school for health is one thing, we NEVER see basic self-medical care taught.

Ask yourself WHY they stop at neosporin and band-aids.

Edit: Spoiler -- they damn sure don't want you to competently DIY when they can charge out the ass instead.
edit on 3/31/2019 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




And the United Nations has zero jurisdiction as any kind of actual government too.


SO, individual governments decide what human rights are for the people that live and reside within their borders? Is that how human rights work, in your opinion?



Understand that the US Constitution legally guarantees you the basic unalienable right to those two things: your person and property.


The Bill of Rights and the Constitution don't bestow human rights, they acknowledge them, and then the Constitution lays out when and how the US Government can regulate and violate them.



So, do you believe you have the absolute right to the goods and services produced by others?


Public good and services, yes. I have the right to travel on public roads, access to public utilities, clean water and food that meets health standards, my kids have the right to attend public schools and receive an education, check out books from libraries, visit museums, enjoy public parks, federal lands and recreational areas. I enjoy the military, local police and emergency services, who publicly serve and protect our safety, values and ways of life.

I don't see why basic health care should not also be a part of public goods and services.




edit on 31-3-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 09:37 PM
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Excerpted from: www.newsmax.com...


“Every single plan that the White House has put together has covered pre-existing conditions,” Chief of Staff Mulvaney said.

“Every single plan considered by the Senate covers pre-existing conditions. The debate about pre-exist conditions is over.

Both parties support them. Anyone telling you differently is lying for political gain.”


Covering Existing Conditions is the primary reason why ObamaCare health coverage costs so much. The White House is working on a plan as we speak. The Federal Government will have to pay a significant portion of the premiums. That should make (almost) everyone happy.



posted on Mar, 31 2019 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: Nyiah

Personally, I think we need to walk back further and look at "why" and "how" healthcare got so expensive in the first place.

Instead of looking to find ways to pay for high costs of healthcare, find out why it's so damned expensive in the first place.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BrianFlanders

No.

Health care is not a basic human right.


Again, the argument as to whether it actually is or not is irrelevant. The reason for that is that we have determined that humans have basic rights. There is no objective reason as to why a human should have more rights than (say) a fly. But there is a very human reason for it. A human bias. IOW, our ideas about what are and are not basic human rights are rather arbitrary. If anything is a basic human right, then everything is because it is based on the same exact rationale. Our emotions. We feel this is the right thing or that's the wrong thing and therefore, that's what it is. Our rights are not grounded in objective thinking anyway.

I'm not a PETA person so this is purely for an example. Why is it OK for a human to kill a cow for dinner? Because we're humans and they're just cows. That's why (note again that I am not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just making an example of how humans see "right" and "wrong"). It's arbitrary and it's up to us. It doesn't have to be fair.


We used to have a class of people who thought that way and the class of people whose labor and services we felt we had a right to were legally reduced to owned property to be bought and sold at our him.

We had to fight a war to end that practice.

You might be familiar with it from your history lessons. I'd prefer we not go back to that time.


Actually, I am familiar with it but there is one part of it that is not included in the history lessons. The practice never actually ended. It just ceased to be prejudiced against black people. Since then we have ALL been slaves. There's no discrimination anymore but that's not necessarily a good thing.

You have no choice but to labor unless you are born super wealthy and or you find a way to buy your freedom. Sound familiar? I don't know what they called it (besides buying your freedom) back then but today, we call it retirement. Slavery didn't go anywhere. It just put on a new disguise.

Anyway, this freakshow can't actually operate without mass slavery. We are all being exploited every single day. In some way or another, we are all feeding the parasite. We might as well demand that people who cannot help themselves should not be beaten with the bullwhip.
edit on 1-4-2019 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Very simply, healthcare is not a right because it is contingent on others to provide.



Here's one for you. Rights do not exist. We made them up. All of them. We can change them at will. We can erase them and create new ones. Your rights are contingent on others to respect what amounts to faith that these words represent an absolute truth. And they don't. And sooner or later, people are going to figure out that all of this stuff is made up and doesn't actually mean anything. It has no concrete basis in objective reality. Humans do not actually have any more rights than flies (like I said). So, anyway, that's why I said that if anything is a right, everything is. Because that's a fact. Rights are opinions. Emotional desires that we endow ourselves with if/when we have the upper hand in the argument.

If you have to pay to survive, you do not have any rights anyway. It's all BS. A smokescreen of appeasement to make it look like you have a choice.

edit on 1-4-2019 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)


EDIT - Oh, and BTW. You will probably never hear any of this from a politician or a judge or an attorney or anything like that. They will never tell you that you don't actually have any rights (or at least they won't if they want to keep their job). They won't tell you that because they hope you won't notice.

But what is the answer? What am I trying to say? It sounds like civilization is doomed. Bingo.
edit on 1-4-2019 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 05:11 AM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

Then there are no rights. No right to food, shelter, healthcare, or anything else. I of course believe something different.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

And like always I could not care less what the UN says. Any right given by man can be taken away by man, thus it can not be a right.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

Food is not man made, shelter is not man made. It exists whether we do anything or not.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I don't agree that government ought to control health care. We already have health care for all. People who are interested in health and medicine get into that field because that is what they do. The question is who pays. The whole thing has been weaponized and works on people's irrational fears of death. Everybody is born to die. People just think somebody else should take care of them and it should be free. The whole thing is lame. Look how much humans have accomplished and then look at how everybody dies anyway. The whole "human" condition lasts for about a hundred years. The entire human existence is a one hundred year window into human activity. The people wanting government to nurse them into the grave are fools.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 06:20 AM
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The profit margins in the pharma and healthcare sector are also the highest when compared to other sectors. They can range from 10 to 42% with 20% being the average. Then there are cases where they go to 1000% when they buy a generic and repatent it and up the price.

Some would argue that if we lower these profit margins, many would quit their job.
And go where?

Profit margins are razor thin in many other sectors and yet people invest in them are not leaving.

There are many ways to lower prices.
Even free market capitalism would lower prices, open up trade with Canada for example.

Throw the lobbyists out of DC.
They do not want lower prices nor do they want free market capitalism.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: jacobe001

Is that the average of all products including the ones that fail and never see the market?



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Sookiechacha

And like always I could not care less what the UN says. Any right given by man can be taken away by man, thus it can not be a right.


By that logic, you don't care about the Bill of Rights or the US Constitution either.

Seems to me that the only real right any human has is the right to die, according to your logic, because nobody can take away inevitable death.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 09:55 AM
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Why would the left want any type of healthcare offered by the right.

Texas Republicans advance a bill that would allow doctors to refuse LGBTQ patients




Senate Bill 17 would prevent state licensing agencies from denying or revoking licenses from professionals – including doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, and even barbers – if they claim to be following a “sincerely held religious belief.”


Also, why is healthcare not a right?
No Health? No Life, Liberty or Happiness




The second paragraph plainly says that we all have been created equal with fundamental human rights that include “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”





TAKE HEALTH CARE, the most glaring and immediate example. Right now, Republican leaders in Congress are in high-gear pursuit of their ideological − some would say pathological − obsession to wipe out the seven-year-old provisions of the Affordable Care Act and return health insurance and medical costs in the U.S. to their pre-2010 state of crisis.





SO NOW I’M WONDERING how it’s possible for people to make any use of their guaranteed life and liberty if they get sick and don’t have money to pay for the health care they need to get better. I find no words in the founding documents that limit health care to those who can afford it, no words that disqualify children born into poverty or adults trapped in its grasp. The words don’t exclude people, whether in rural or urban communities, whose decent jobs have disappeared because of technological change or profit-driven management choices, leaving behind women and men to struggle without employment and without income to buy health insurance to help protect them from the random ravages of illness



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 09:56 AM
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Of course healthcare should be bipartisan, but for some reason Republicans have drawn a line in the sand against insuring all Americans without having any plan of their own to give care to all Americans. Today, America pays double what any other nation pays for healthcare yet we have a lower life expectancy and worse health. By far, Americans pay more for pharmaceuticals than any other nation for the exact same compounds. Why Republicans refuse to address this is beyond me. Only corruption can explain how this possible. Even the report on how single payer universal healthcare would play out here, funded by the politically right Cohn brothers, showed that policy would (conservatively) save $2 trillion dollars over a ten year period over our current system. Why would Republicans not want to save $2 trillion? Moreover, this single payer universal policy would eliminate deductibles, provide better coverage than plans today, and cover ALL Americans. Yes, it would effectively eliminate the need for private insurance, but it would allow people to see any doctor of their own choosing without worry of who is "out of network." What's wrong with that? People are not in love with their insurance company as long as they get the coverage and service they require. What they love is the doctors they feel comfortable with. Furthermore, it should be pointed out America essentially gives healthcare to all citizens. Though it is often inferior care because uninsured and underinsured often do not get care that would prevent more costly conditions as their health deteriorates, these people often seek the only care they can get — emergency room visits — which cost far more than other treatment options; and the public pays for that through higher insurance premiums and more.



posted on Apr, 1 2019 @ 10:07 AM
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It amazes me that you guys in the states have such a poor healthcare system.
I hope your politicians sort it out so you catch up with the rest of us.




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