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If healthcare is important, shouldn't it be bi-partisan?

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posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 10:13 AM
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I hear both sides blaming the other side, which is nice as long as you are the last one pointing the finger and all. But US Health care is about all of us, not just the left, or just the right. Unless there is a vested interest in doing things the wrong way, it seems we should all be working together to find a fix to Obamacare. The one thing we all agree with is it needs to be fixed, it didn't work. The only positive it brought is coverage for pre-existing conditions. While that was a good thing, I can't help but wonder did we have to screw the rest of the people in the country just to help those folks? Or could we perhaps have worked on a better plan and included them?

The only way this would be a partisan issue, is if there was an underlying wish to centralize healthcare, and make it government funded and controlled. Socialized healthcare. In some countries it works. But some countries don't have the corrupt non working government we in the US do. And anything they control, usually fails. Was Obama-care put in place in order that it fail, and usher in Socialized medicine? Could be, but that would amount to a giant conspiracy.

It's time for Washington to start pretending to earn their paychecks. Work together to fix our healthcare and quit playing the blame game. We all know it, you all suck. Not them, YOU. So start showing the world that the US government isn't made up of infighting 2nd graders. Or it's time out's for everyone. Don't make me get my belt.




posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 10:46 AM
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I think, for the most part, you have answered your own question(s), but here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

I'm not against socialized healthcare in theory. As arguably the richest nation on earth, with respect to standard of living, we should be able to provide basic healthcare for all citizens.

In practice, however, the government has proven itself incapable/incompetent in running a cost effective, efficient program of any kind. Why would I believe healthcare would be any different?

On the other hand, Insurance companies are profiteering SOBs, that profit from human suffering to the point that they have become evil. They have a huge DC lobby, that in reality, buy polititians to keep the status quo.

Obamacare, was an exercise in stupidity, and doomed to failure from the beginning. It tried to superimpose a government social program onto a capitalist, for profit system, basically taking the worst solution possible.

I hate to agree with Kamala Harris, but if socialized medicine is the future, there is really no need for insurance companies, and we don't need to support them with tax money anyway.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: network dude

They will have to meet in the middle if obamacare is struck down. And fast.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 11:30 AM
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where have you been op trump has it all figured out, he said so on live tv the other day!

we didn't get any specifics, but don't worry he knows more than most people about everything so we should be good, no need to question anything just go along, it'll be great THIS time around.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 11:31 AM
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Healthcare is an issue for everyone- but people have different ideas of how to fix it.
Clearly, it's broken.

What's the problem?
Well, for starters I need medical attention right now. If I lived in Canada, I'd be in the hospital right now. Instead, I'm at home doing my best to not have to call 911.
I can't afford a $10,000 ambulance ride, I can't afford $15,000 in hospital bills for what should be *maybe* $1000 in care.

Why is it so expensive?
Because we allowed insurance to get involved in the first place.

For some reason the left thinks insurance should be mandatory and everyone should have this magical company that somehow pays your bills without costing you even more in fees than the healthcare itself costs. Because these companies exist, anyone can walk into a hospital and identify themselves and ask for help- but they'll have NO idea what they're going to pay.
They won't know what the doctors office is even going to charge. There's no rate structure, it's nearly random.
Then the bill goes to insurance and they pay the least they can get away with, leaving you with the rest.

My last bill was $513. The one before that was $1200. In both cases the doctors simply said there was nothing more they could do, you'll just have to live with your situation. The last one was maybe half an hour in the building, with ten minutes tops of human interaction. Before that it was an hour, with 30-40 minutes of interaction.

When it comes to healthcare in the USA, insurance is a huge part of the problem. An entire industry has been created now and I don't know how to fix it.

Example: Lasik.
Not covered by insurance.
Around here, it averages about $5k. You can get estimates, and shop around. You can go to mexico and get it for $1500- maybe 2500 in canada. I'm sure the prices all over the world are different... but generally you can shop around.

Why can't you shop around for routine procedures? Because then you couldn't get gouged at the doctors office, and then AGAIN by the insurance company.

As far as I can tell, there's no way to fix the healthcare in this country without a total reset on how it works- which includes massive paycuts for doctors.

You can't run it like the DMV or the post office- the costs of the few would have to be massively covered by the many. Nine people would pay twice what their healthcare would otherwise cost to cover the cost of the tenth. Doesn't work.

What might work is banning insurance- if you force the healthcare system to actually work in the free market system, their prices would have to fall drastically for people to afford it- but they'd also have to be able to turn away people who can't afford to pay their bills.

I'm not willing to accept either of those, but if I had to guess the former would be considered left and the latter considered right. In this instance I do lean right- but that system isn't great either.

What do you do when these are your choices?
Buckle up I guess, and accept your fate. Maybe skip that cheeseburger and eat a piece of fruit?
One thing I know for sure- government can't fix this.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: network dude

They will have to meet in the middle if obamacare is struck down. And fast.



you mean strick it down than build it back up with trump's name on it, right? hilarious.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: lordcomac
Healthcare is an issue for everyone- but people have different ideas of how to fix it.
Clearly, it's broken.

What's the problem?
Well, for starters I need medical attention right now. If I lived in Canada, I'd be in the hospital right now. Instead, I'm at home doing my best to not have to call 911.
I can't afford a $10,000 ambulance ride, I can't afford $15,000 in hospital bills for what should be *maybe* $1000 in care.

Why is it so expensive?
Because we allowed insurance to get involved in the first place.

[...]


We know free markets work in keeping cost down because the end user is encouraged to shop around. As you aptly pointed out, in the medical field LASIK, Plastic Surgery, Fertility treatments, Cosmetic dentists, etc are all relatively affordable because the market is not distorted by insurance.

With that said, the problem isn't so much insurance, but that healthcare insurance really isn't insurance but more of a health maintenance plan.

By definition, insurance is supposed to be about covering catastrophic UNEXPECTED COSTS. You have homeowner's insurance to protect you from a fire that could destory everything you own. Life insurance to insure that your family doesn't go broke from your death.

Health insurance is supposed to be about covering you in case you have a HEALTH emergency. Cancer. Broken bones. Needed life threatening surgeries. Expensive drugs. The problem is that people expect insurance to cover every little sniffle and sneeze when that is not what insurance is supposed to be for. Insurance should not be paying for your physicals. Colds. Or every little doctor consultation. This is why insurance is so expensive.

Imagine how much your homeowner's insurnace would cost if it had to pay for your lawn care. House cleaning? Or your car insurance if it had to cover oil changes, tire rotations, and car washes? Better yet, how absurd it would seem if your car insurance was tied to your employer and anytiem you changed jobs, you had to get a new auto policy.

In addition, government has also distorted the insurance market by forcing it to be tied to employers with outdated and misguided tax policy. People should be buying health insurance on the open market and it should be completely disconnected from your employer or the state in which you live in.

This is why healthcare is so screwed up. Relatively easy fixes, but for many people unless they think it is going to be free, they don't want simple solutions.
edit on 29-3-2019 by Edumakated because: (no reason given)

edit on Fri Mar 29 2019 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed quote Trim Those Quotes



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: knoxie
where have you been op trump has it all figured out, he said so on live tv the other day!

we didn't get any specifics, but don't worry he knows more than most people about everything so we should be good, no need to question anything just go along, it'll be great THIS time around.



This is an important discussion on a subject that has zero to do with any individual.

Why do ppl insist on bringing obvious hate into what should be a fair exchange of ideas.

Is bashing our President really necessary in the context of this subject? Try to have an open mind, and not make it about personal attacks please.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: lordcomac
For some reason the left thinks insurance should be mandatory and everyone should have this magical company that somehow pays your bills without costing you even more in fees than the healthcare itself costs.


That is false, good sir. They want insurance companies to go away, and for our health "insurance" to come from the taxes that we already pay. Even of it costs slightly more in taxes per individual, it would still be cheaper than the ridiculous insurance rates we're paying now.

I know most of you are supermen, who never get sick, and pay out of pocket when you do but... I have 4 kids. They get sick. That gets expensive. I've also had to pay out of pocket for cancer treatment because my wife was diagnosed 5 months after we got married and I put her on my insurance plan. Any less than 6 months in 2004 was a preexisting condition, and they didn't pay a dime. 6 months of chemo, 30 radiation treatments, a bone marrow extraction, and doctor's visits added up to nearly half a million dollars. Just to keep her alive. I of course couldn't pay all of that. I settled for half or so with some of the bills, and let others just go to collections. Thankfully they're all off of my credit report now, and I'm building that back up.

So you super manly "I pay cash when I have to go to the doctor" dudes should tread very carefully. My wife was 22 and very healthy when she came down with cancer. It could happen to any of you, and you won't be able to cover it. The only reason they kept treating her was because we brought as much money as we could to each treatment. If we ran out of money, they wouldn't have treated her.
edit on 29-3-2019 by LordAhriman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



edit on 29-3-2019 by knoxie because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: knoxie
where have you been op trump has it all figured out, he said so on live tv the other day!

we didn't get any specifics, but don't worry he knows more than most people about everything so we should be good, no need to question anything just go along, it'll be great THIS time around.



so you would rather play politics then have good healthcare? wow, you kind of suck as a person.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: network dude

They will have to meet in the middle if obamacare is struck down. And fast.



I'm not sure compromise is the best thing here. That's what Obamacare was, and it is not feasible as things are currently constructed.

There are, IMO, too many different situations for any compromise to be viable.

Ppl that have their healthcare paid for by their employer are not in the same situation as those who are self employed, or working for a company that doesn't provide that benifit, for example.

Those on the low end of the income scale, simply can't afford the ridiculously high premiums, for a policy that has a huge deductible, and very limited coverage.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



I guess you missed my point, entirely.

This issue has been around long before Trump became president. He didn't create it, and he isn't to blame for it.

Obamacare was never a viable solution. It is not right to force me to pay a penalty (tax), to not have coverage, while subsidising coverage for another, period, and I don't care if a Democrat, republican, or Santa Claus came up with the plan.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:29 PM
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A damn good start to fixing the problems within the industry would be to make corruption -- I mean, lobbyists -- no, I mean corruption, same damn thing -- completely illegal complete with extremely long jail terms for violations (15 years+ would be a good start, going longer the younger the lobbyist(s) & politician(s) are)

Second would be product price caps. MUCH is still developed in countries with price caps on medications, saying they can't do anything here without charging exorbitant prices for products is an American Excuse Boat full of holes. Plenty of foreign posters will concur that caps in their countries have not hampered drug R & D at all.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



Obamacare was never a viable solution. It is not right to force me to pay a penalty (tax), to not have coverage, while subsidising coverage for another, period, and I don't care if a Democrat, republican, or Santa Claus came up with the plan.

Uh, if people actually read the law instead of just bitching about it, you'll find there's a Get Out of Jail Free card built right in, in the form of "No plans available in my area or via my employer were affordable enough". You don't have to prove s#, just claim that reason, and boom, you're fine -- totally exempt from the tax.

Only stupid people who didn't bother to thoroughly check the list of reasons out and pick that one if the others didn't apply paid the tax. I did call more than a few of my friends stupid f's for skipping over it.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



Obamacare was never a viable solution. It is not right to force me to pay a penalty (tax), to not have coverage, while subsidising coverage for another, period, and I don't care if a Democrat, republican, or Santa Claus came up with the plan.

Uh, if people actually read the law instead of just bitching about it, you'll find there's a Get Out of Jail Free card built right in, in the form of "No plans available in my area or via my employer were affordable enough". You don't have to prove s#, just claim that reason, and boom, you're fine -- totally exempt from the tax.

Only stupid people who didn't bother to thoroughly check the list of reasons out and pick that one if the others didn't apply paid the tax. I did call more than a few of my friends stupid f's for skipping over it.


Uh...what if I just don't want insurance smart guy?



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: lordcomac
For some reason the left thinks insurance should be mandatory and everyone should have this magical company that somehow pays your bills without costing you even more in fees than the healthcare itself costs.



So you super manly "I pay cash when I have to go to the doctor" dudes should tread very carefully. My wife was 22 and very healthy when she came down with cancer. It could happen to any of you, and you won't be able to cover it. The only reason they kept treating her was because we brought as much money as we could to each treatment. If we ran out of money, they wouldn't have treated her.


I take it you skipped over the first paragraph or so of my post, eh?



originally posted by: lordcomac
Well, for starters I need medical attention right now. If I lived in Canada, I'd be in the hospital right now. Instead, I'm at home doing my best to not have to call 911.
I can't afford a $10,000 ambulance ride, I can't afford $15,000 in hospital bills for what should be *maybe* $1000 in care.


Don't worry- I'm feeling super manly right now.

You're not going to fix healthcare costs without reducing what doctors get paid.
You're also not going to make a dent in the costs without removing about 90% of the rules and regulations. The support staff for each doctor costs twice what the doctor costs, and they're mostly doing nothing of use.
Then the doctors work for huge corporations instead of themselves, so even more profits go there...

Like I said- there's no fixing this without a complete reset of healthcare... and there's NO WAY involving more government is going to help.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah
A damn good start to fixing the problems within the industry would be to make corruption -- I mean, lobbyists -- no, I mean corruption, same damn thing -- completely illegal complete with extremely long jail terms for violations (15 years+ would be a good start, going longer the younger the lobbyist(s) & politician(s) are)

Second would be product price caps. MUCH is still developed in countries with price caps on medications, saying they can't do anything here without charging exorbitant prices for products is an American Excuse Boat full of holes. Plenty of foreign posters will concur that caps in their countries have not hampered drug R & D at all.


Some good ideas there. I'm usually not a proponent of government regulations, but in this case, it makes sense, in the same way utilities are regulated to prohibit monopolies.

I've believed for some time that universities could be useful for medical R&D, as opposed to the stranglehold big pharma now has.

I also think that "catastrophic" coverage is something that could be explored as a safety net.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



Obamacare was never a viable solution. It is not right to force me to pay a penalty (tax), to not have coverage, while subsidising coverage for another, period, and I don't care if a Democrat, republican, or Santa Claus came up with the plan.

Uh, if people actually read the law instead of just bitching about it, you'll find there's a Get Out of Jail Free card built right in, in the form of "No plans available in my area or via my employer were affordable enough". You don't have to prove s#, just claim that reason, and boom, you're fine -- totally exempt from the tax.

Only stupid people who didn't bother to thoroughly check the list of reasons out and pick that one if the others didn't apply paid the tax. I did call more than a few of my friends stupid f's for skipping over it.


Uh...what if I just don't want insurance smart guy?


What part of "don't have to prove s#" did you miss there? You don't have to WANT insurance, just claim you can't afford any available plans. Hence, the government did think to give people smart enough to choose it a viable Get Out of Jail Free card on the tax penalty.



posted on Mar, 29 2019 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Mach2


i'd love to know what trumps plans are this time around, but haven't heard any specifics, have you? isn't that odd to you?



Obamacare was never a viable solution. It is not right to force me to pay a penalty (tax), to not have coverage, while subsidising coverage for another, period, and I don't care if a Democrat, republican, or Santa Claus came up with the plan.

Uh, if people actually read the law instead of just bitching about it, you'll find there's a Get Out of Jail Free card built right in, in the form of "No plans available in my area or via my employer were affordable enough". You don't have to prove s#, just claim that reason, and boom, you're fine -- totally exempt from the tax.

Only stupid people who didn't bother to thoroughly check the list of reasons out and pick that one if the others didn't apply paid the tax. I did call more than a few of my friends stupid f's for skipping over it.


Uh...what if I just don't want insurance smart guy?


What part of "don't have to prove s#" did you miss there? You don't have to WANT insurance, just claim you can't afford any available plans. Hence, the government did think to give people smart enough to choose it a viable Get Out of Jail Free card on the tax penalty.


But that's not true. I could afford it, I just dont want, or need it. Are you suggesting I should lie? I don't like being put in that position.

I guess you think the plan was acceptable because you could get around it by false statements.

You must be a lefty.




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