Immigration System At The Breaking Point

If I'm not mistaken we allow 1 million immigrants into the country per year. More than the entirety of all European countries combined. Add all the ones coming over illegally and your going to have huge problems. We've been seeing the negative effects this has on our country for a long time, it's just been swept under the rug and ignored. Without a very pro active plan to reverse the damage done already, we're screwed, so.. yeah we're screwed. Sorry to say but I believe it's to late already.

Resources on all levels are limited and will not sustain the population growth rate we're currently experiencing. Many don't want to see this part of the equation but given time it will become a issue that nobody rich or poor can ignore.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Now those who follow the Constitution will immediately point out that all those children born here are US citizens. But I believe that is a perversion of the law. Birthright citizenship was never intended for people who sneak across the border in the middle of the night, hold up in birthing houses, then claim citizenship. It was meant to address the increasing number of new arrivals from Europe and elsewhere in the new USA. People coming here from other nations had to swear loyalty to the USA. Their children were assumed to be loyal to the USA and were not treated as immigrants but instead as citizens. The extension of that citizenship to illegals is just circumventing the law.

This is an interesting point. How would you suggest changing, or clarifying the law so that children born in this country by people here without permission, wouldn't have access to citizenship?

If a person is here legally it is easy to prove. If you can prove you were hear legally then your child can have citizenship. If you can't prove you were here legally then you get to leave and here is your medical bill to take with you. We have people to help you pack. Thanks for stopping by.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

How does your solution differ from the current laws, and how do we make your solution a law on the books?

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: Vroomfondel

How does your solution differ from the current laws, and how do we make your solution a law on the books?

Well, the difference is as it stands now when someone has a baby on US soil, whether they are here legally or not, that child is automatically considered a US citizen. Then, due to the citizenship of the baby, the entire family can receive citizenship (chain migration) so the child need not be alone or raised by strangers. One pregnant woman on US soil could result in dozens of illegal aliens suddenly becoming US citizens. Worse yet, because record keeping in some countries is so poor, half the people she is bringing with here may not even be relatives. It isn't fair to the USA or to the people who wait in line and do it properly.

The method of making it law has been established since day one in this country.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Pretty much how I see it.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Technically all Trump would have to do is deny citizenship to a child born of an illegal and there is a good chance the SC would agree. Giving citizenship to illegals is a recent phenomena, it was done by changing practices not changing laws.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

And immigration is specifically a dilemma with many a hydra's heads.

We need to address the symptoms of the disease, not just one specific issue.

Else meaningful debate becomes somewhat skewered imho.

There is for sure a legitimate crisis at the border. Unfortunately the president doesn't have any idea how to fix it.

Yeah we need some more walls in key places. However it will do very little to stop the problem without the actual fixes necessary. The most important is a guest worker program that allows legal temporary visas. Once a work history is established then immigration policies take effect. Good workers get better referrals.

Drugs don't cross the border in the desert. They come through check points.

Terrorists don't travel in groups and neither do drug dealers. That makes no sense and has no evidence to support as a general trend.

Do we send in armies for special ops missions or do we have small teams that go undetected?

Walls do not stop individuals as the great wall of China shows us. Yeah they slowed armies. They did not stop smugglers and assassins. Because a few people can go undetected.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Technically all Trump would have to do is deny citizenship to a child born of an illegal and there is a good chance the SC would agree. Giving citizenship to illegals is a recent phenomena, it was done by changing practices not changing laws.

This is utterly false. In fact illegals are generally a modern term. People came and went for a couple hundred years with no checks on the southern border. Citizenship was not nearly as hard to get while America was expanding and there were no benefits to get because of it.

A VAT tax and lowered or eliminated income tax would go a long way in making sure everyone pays taxes.

a reply to: mtnshredder

Its is entirely false that illegals coming over have huge problems. Most of the illegals work in fields with massive labor shortages. Texas built 4 of their big cities with illegal labor and it wasn't only because it was cheaper. It is because nobody is going into the trades and the boomers (the last trade force) have been retiring.

The problem is subsidizing the companies that use illegals by giving them governmwnt benefits to even out their low pay and lack of workplace benefits.

If you were honest you would know the employers are the real problem. We are literally subsidizing their profits which they often take outside the US monetary system. The illegals pretty much spend everything they make and send some home.

It's a mess but the only big solutions would be create a guest worker program for central America that reflects reality on the ground and eliminate benefits from being so easily obtained by noncitizens.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Probably not many. It makes more sense to go in small teams than travel with caravans that have cameras and news coverage.

I mean all the terrorists I know of were here legally.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: mtnshredder

Its is entirely false that illegals coming over have huge problems. Most of the illegals work in fields with massive labor shortages. Texas built 4 of their big cities with illegal labor and it wasn't because it was cheaper. It is because nobody is going into the trades and the boomers (the last trade force) have been retiring.

The problem is subsidizing the companies that use illegals by giving them governmwnt benefits to even out their low pay and lack of workplace benefits.

If you were honest you would know the employees are the real problem. We are literally subsidizing their profits which they often take outside the US monetary system. The illegals pretty much spend everything they make and send some home.

It's a mess but the only big solutions would be create a guest worker program for central America that reflects reality on the ground and eliminate benefits from being so easily obtained by non citizens.

I was saying that they CREATE huge problems not that they HAVE huge problems and no it is not false. Is that what you meant? Because there is no doubt that they create problems for American citizens. They're also not all working in the fields, that's a myth.

They have also cut pay scales so much that many Americans don't want the jobs they take because there's no money in it anymore. For them, it probably triples or quadruples their wage they made in Mexico. It's all gain for them and loss for US citizens

Based on my experience in the trades I have to disagree with most of your post. I've been in the construction trades for 40 yrs and have worked around illegals and the companies that hire them for the same period of time, as well as a business owner. I've learned a few things in how it all works.

If you were honest you would know the employees are the real problem.

I believe this was a typo and you meant employers? Yes, the people hiring them is a big problem and I never said it wasn't. This alone doesn't qualify to discount the other issues illegals bring upon us. A lot of them now are running their own illegitimate business's, when they get caught they fold that company name up and start another.

E-verify is also a joke, especially for small companies which make up a majority of the construction trades, especially in the new home and remodel industry.

a reply to: mtnshredder

Cool. I am a carpenter..now a glorified one that makes and repairs stringed instruments.

I worked in Texas as a remodeling carpenter for 12 years. I answered an ad from a paper in new England because they had no workers. I got paid 25 and hour in 2001 to start and moved to 75 per unit for cabinet installs. I made about 1500 a week until the recession. Guess what. They couldn't find any workers.

If you actually looked at ththe labor stats you would understand how wrong you are. Construction managers are now entering the 100k an hour range. Plumbers can't be found anywhere. There are massive public service campaigns about going to trade schools in parts of the us and Canada.

There are real and legiramate labor shortages and you are falsely stating illegals don't work. They by far and large do in fact work. They also stress the system because they bring their families. Why? Because they can't travel back and forth without huge risk so the y set up shop here.

Start jailing employers who are hiring and you will see everify work.

a reply to: luthier
That is not even close to the reality I've seen in the last three states I've live in. The state I'm in now is paying construction wages that I was making the early eighties with a few exceptions. Texas, where you lived is overrun with illegals in the construction trade, I have friends down there in the housing trade and have been told most job sites are almost exclusively latino labor. He said bidding down there is as cutthroat as it gets and his profit margins have dwindled big time, this was my experience as a business owner in Co and Ok also. Co wages have come back up some but Ok, no.

We may have to agree to disagree because a lot of what you're saying is not close to what I've experienced.

a reply to: mtnshredder

I am not going on my experience. I am going on actual labor stats. You can look it up yourself. Baby boomers are the last trades group. There is a massive decline in population and in particular skilled labor.

Now Texas is a mess. I am not saying the labor issues are not real. I am saying they have been created and so not need to exist this way. Do you really think people want to be roofers in Texas?

You are correct bid wars are very real in Texas. That has nothing to do with the lack of skilled labor available. And no it's not because there is no money in it. You may have to move for work. So does everybody in every field. Engineers to money managers. It's the nature of the gig economy.

We are not returning to the good old days. We are moving towards automation and AI. Carpenters will have jobs longer particularly in retro based carpentry.

Check out craigslist in any state not near the border and go to skilled trades as a little test.

Now Texas is Republican. Has had Republican leadership for ever. So this should tell you something about who benefits from labor. Hint..its both sides.

A wall will do nothing for this problem. A Visa program, plus a wall, plus benefit reduction, plus a pathway will..

A wall is just a political base rally cry. Stopping aid to central America will make it worse.

We should have been developing central America not the middle east.

a reply to: mtnshredder

But there simply aren't enough skilled builders around to complete the work. Through the first quarter of 2018, employers have been looking to fill an average of nearly 225,000 construction jobs each month, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That average was eclipsed in only one year going back to 2000, when the BLS first began tracking the data – and that year was 2007, at the tail end of the U.S. housing boom.

www.usnews.com...

Seems REX-84, Garden Plot and Cable Splicer may have had a purpose after all

Could this be the purpose of the detention camps?

a reply to: luthier

Regardless of the rest of your post (which I partly agree and disagree with), you are spot on here

We should have been developing central America not the middle east.

But Billy bad ass Bush had to finish Daddy's job in Iraq

Agree with this sentiment completely, the crisis in Venezuela among others would not be happening right now in all likelihood.

Think of the missed business and natural resource opportunities we are missing down there. Many square miles of undeveloped jungle with a trove of resources, enough to make those countries rich along with any one smart enough to invest early

a reply to: JBurns

It's part of the conspiracy because it makes no sense we wouldn't help nudge our neighbors into a better place (gaining some benefit on the way). It's the best security plan as well.

The truth is guys like me may abandon their heating bill, and go live a simple life fishing in one of the great spots eating incredible Mexican food in the yucatan. They have to throw in beheadings from drug lords to prevent it.


I am too important. A middle class guy who pays his taxes and bills on time. I have to bail out all the bad votes in Congress.

originally posted by: mtnshredder
E-verify is also a joke,

Not to mention UnConstitutional...