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originally posted by: paraphi
They're not traitors. That's too strong and unhelpful. They are just people with a different opinion than you,
Traitor Definition of Traitor by Merriam-Webster
Definition of traitor. one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty.
Of course many MPs who never wanted to leave the EU, are swayed by their own narrative
originally posted by: oldcarpy
That is all true enough but the bottom line is that they are ignoring the vote of the people to leave the EU which to me is quite disgraceful. They are meant to be public servants and this is meant to be a democracy.
originally posted by: paraphi
Yes, I get that. But there are different flavours of "leaving". Hard, soft, flaccid, deal or no deal, fat one with star dust, Norwegian, hybrid, Common Market 2.0, Canadian, Brazilian, pie in the sky, and all the rest. It’s an industry of ideas, most of which are silly, but which divide opinion. But there is a final “no deal, just get out” which is the bottom line, as you say.
While I don’t think it’s a legitimate argument, there’s a view that we (apparently) know about the consequences of leaving so a second referendum would help people take that on board. Of course, the second referendum crowd have made sure the negative narrative would ensure a change of the outcome, otherwise what’s the point? This is of course the last gasp of the Remainers, who are clearly a bloc of MPs.
Sadly, though, our MPs are failing to come up with the goods because they are fixated on their own politics rather than the fact in hand, that is a referendum outcome to leave.
originally posted by: eletheia
Funny the view for a second referendum or peoples vote seem to come mainly from 'remainers'
originally posted by: paraphi
I would be OK for a second referendum in (say) six years. In that way there will be a proper discussion on the virtues of joining an EU, perhaps for good.
I say this because none of the discussion to "revoke Artcle 50" has highighted why the EU is such a good place to stay in. Yes, I get the EU is good for German manufacturing, and French wine, and keeping the Greeks down and the Republic of Ireland as a tax dodgers paradise, but what good is the EU really?
I would love a post Brexit discussion on re-joining the EU because I am genuinely interested to know the benefits of being a part of an undemocratic federal Europe.
originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia
You say the only form of leave is to leave with no ties but i honestly do not believe the majority of the population would agree with you there. Remainers obviously want a deal of some description
and even many leave voters don't want to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I will not deny that a hardened minority do wish to leave with no deal but you have to ask - "does the dog wag the tail or does the tail wag the dog?". No deal is definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog and would impoverish the poorer in society. People keep talking about treason - well that is an active example right there.
originally posted by: eletheiaI wonder where remainers would be if it wasn't for the innovators, explorers
and inventors of the past...... an ommlette cannot be made without breaking
egg. Remainers are like scared children with the constant need to have their
originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Remainers are happy with the current situation whereby we have come together as humanity and joined together to make a single whole coomunity. All this Brexiteer divide us up is no different from the dreamers of apartheid and the results will be the same total division leading to no good for anybody.
The best of it is those who voted us out are the most likely to feel the post Brexit squeeze. Japanese and German plants are readying to flee these shores in an exodus unseen in the past and whole regions will be consigned to third world levels of poverty in the long term. Whole regions of our nation are already on their backside, throw in Brexit and the decline in tax revenues and you can consign much of Britain to appalling decline in living standards and all the crime and social decline that will come with it.
Brexit is proving to be a total farce and nothing good will come of it bar the segregation that Brixiteers so desire
Remainers are happy with the current situation whereby we have come together as humanity and joined together to make a single whole coomunity.
All this Brexiteer divide us up is no different from the dreamers of apartheid and the results will be the same total division leading to no good for anybody.
Top mandarin's bombshell No Deal warning: Food up 10%, police unable to protect public, direct rule in Ulster, worse recession than 2008 says leaked letter
No-deal would result in a 10 per cent spike in food prices and the collapse of some businesses that trade with the EU
The government would come under pressure to bail out companies on the brink
It would hamper the ability of the police and security services to keep people safe
It would lead to the reintroduction of direct rule in Northern Ireland for the first time since 2007;
A recession will hit the UK and the pound’s depreciation will be ‘more harmful’ than in 2008.
Our legal authorities and judicial system would be put under ‘enormous pressure’
... snip ...
Sir Mark warns no-deal could lead to the break-up of the UK, saying: ‘The stability of the union would be dislocated.’
originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: fakedirt
If peaceable remainers are getting called the likes of a traitor, for simply voicing their discontent at this whole debacle.
Then i guess, following the same spurious logic, that makes the pro-Brexit halfwit moronic bastards responsible for the likes of this terrorists.