Another night of Brexit drama

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Remainers are happy with the current situation whereby we have come together as humanity and joined together to make a single whole coomunity.

I must have missed that......

a reply to: oldcarpy

What an amazing post that was.

Totally delusional and misty eyed, romanticised claptrap.

He even likened Brexit to apartheid...

How sad and pathetic it must be to have so little faith in yourself and your fellow countrymen and feel the need to be beholden and dictated to by foreign bodies.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: oldcarpy

What an amazing post that was.

Totally delusional and misty eyed, romanticised claptrap.

He even likened Brexit to apartheid...

How sad and pathetic it must be to have so little faith in yourself and your fellow countrymen and feel the need to be beholden and dictated to by foreign bodies.

Now it was too misty eyed for me personally but Remainers could easily turn that argument around and throw it back - as in how sad and pathetic that in a modern inter connected world we feel the need to isolate ourselves from the continent and our neighbours and partners. It would be a slightly disingenuous argument but no more than the one you have shown above.

Although i will completely agree that Brexit is nothing whatsoever like apartheid.

a reply to: Flavian

The thing is, this could all have been avoided if The Remainers had accepted the result of a democratically held referendum and then united to help forge something new and good for this land.

Now we have scenario where 17.4million people are being demonised, labelled as racists and xenophobes and generally being portrayed as the villains of the pathetic farce.....all for expressing their democratic Right to Self-Determination.

And no-one has yet even attempted to answer my repeated question as to how are The Remainers going to appease the 17.4million people who voted for Brexit when some massively diluted version or even No Brexit is forced upon them?
Those 17.4million people are going to feel completely cast adrift and disenfranchised by a country and a system that has seen fit to so casually dismiss their votes.

a reply to: Flavian

Sorry, forgot about this.

.....as in how sad and pathetic that in a modern inter connected world we feel the need to isolate ourselves from the continent and our neighbours and partners.

I certainly don't want to isolate this county form anyone.
I wish to have a Free Trade Agreement with our continental neighbours.
I think we still share many common goals and principles and will continue working with their intelligence and security services.
We still have shared commitments in NATO.

That isn't isolationism.

I just don't want political union, not now not ever!

originally posted by: FlavianBrexit is nothing whatsoever like apartheid.

It's the same thing...................... Dividing up separate cultures and placing barriers between them in order for separate development. Segregation of Britain from our neighbours can only lead to division in the long run when surely in a progressive world we should be coming together to create unity. The more we divide up the more we will feel prejudice and racism maybe even war, this will be a direct result of the Brexiteers and their jingoistic mentality

a reply to: Freeborn

You know my stance mate, im a Remainer. I've always thought we were right to be aligned with Europe but outside the political sphere. In all honesty, our current membership gave us the best of both worlds - we already had a bespoke deal with the EU that no other member had. In essence, we had already picked the bits that we wanted and got to lawfully ignore the rest and it was enshrined in law.

Whatever happens going forward, that is all gone. It was always obvious that what Europe could offer on leaving was never going to be as good as what we currently had.

I am constantly amazed that many Brexiteers (both here on ATS but also in real life) seem to think the EU is shafting us with their offers now. Is it not obvious that any deal on leaving would be worse that what we currently have as a member? If not then people are much thicker than i would like to believe!

A major national split is almost inevitable now, sadly. Remain lost, leave needs to happen. But leave without a deal will cause untold trouble for millions. If the Security Services are forecasting that (which they are), they will be correct.

Parliament as a whole has been completely incompetent and clueless, whichever side of the debate you are on. There are literally 5 to 6 MP's that have any credibility left, out of 656 serving MP's.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Apartheid? War? Segregation? What a load of old tosh.

a reply to: Flavian

At least you give reasoned arguments for your viewpoint and don't go around labelling all Brexiteers as racist devil spawn.

As for moving forward; we had our chance.....just going to be more of the same old same old.
At least we can now give up all pretence of democracy in this country because we ALL know our votes count for # when it comes down to it.

Parliament as a whole has been completely incompetent and clueless, whichever side of the debate you are on. There are literally 5 to 6 MP's that have any credibility left, out of 656 serving MP's.

You're being generous there mate!

Brexit has shown that our party political system is no longer fit for purpose and needs radical reform.

a reply to: Freeborn

Some Brexiteers are racist devil spawn. No point denying it. Equally, some Remainers are just as bad. I honestly don't see the purpose or reality of trying to label all (on either side) as anything. The reality is that people have their own varied reasons for having their own beliefs, encompassing all spheres - the good, the bad and the ugly.

I honestly just want it to happen now, get it over with. We have a nation to run, not simply one issue that no one can agree on. The only way out of this mess is to try to find some form of agreement that gives everyone something whilst realising that most people won't get most of what they wanted. But seeing as MP's can't even agree on that, i have no idea where we go or how we get there.......

a reply to: Flavian

Devil spawn here. We are watching a slow motion train crash. Those MP's couldn't organise a bunk up in a brothel.

It's a good thing that us Brits (some exceptions, obviously) can hold positions on Brexit that are poles apart but can still discuss their differences over a pint without throwing chairs at each other. Can you imagine some Americans on here doing that over US political issues?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
It's a good thing that us Brits (some exceptions, obviously) can hold positions on Brexit that are poles apart but can still discuss their differences over a pint without throwing chairs at each other. Can you imagine some Americans on here doing that over US political issues?

Better yet, i love how us Brits can throw chairs at each other and then go for a pint together afterwards. This is something i feel is present in all Rugby playing nations (except possibly South Africa, for obvious reasons).

a reply to: Flavian

Agreed.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

what the hell is really going on with Brexit

Pie nailed it.

By taking back control the UK has shown that it's out of control.

originally posted by: Flavian
… as in how sad and pathetic that in a modern inter connected world we feel the need to isolate ourselves from the continent and our neighbours and partners.

Now this is where it all starts to get silly. Just because the UK does not want to be part of a centralised and democratically flawed European Union, does not mean that relations cannot be close and collaborative. Indeed, for the EU to work it has to form close bonds with countries outside of the union. After all, the EU is not Europe and Europe is not the EU.

On the misuse of the vile word “Apartheid”. If you really want a world of two parts: The haves and the have nots.; the superior and the inferior; the dictators and the dictated to.; then you need to look at Europe where you have the rich Germany and France, and their lackeys, and the economically hobbled southern European nations.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If they want there Cooper deal to pass they should have called it the "Davie Cooper Deal".

Ram it up your Brexit.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well, the traitors continue to push and push to ignore the People's vote.

Last night was another example.
The polls remainers like(d) to use until recently show that no deal is the most supported option - more people want that than remaining. So the traitors decide to vote to take no deal off the table.

At least May's pretence has ended - she was a remainer from the start... exactly the kind of character to properly represent the remainers, in fact. Their mantra - you can have anything you want as long as it is what we want.