Trump tells Russia to leave Venezuela-All options open

How does America tell a sovereign country what to do?

RT, the Russia mouthpiece doesn’t have any editorial comments just straight reporting

The United States will not tolerate hostile foreign military powers meddling with the Western Hemisphere’s shared goals of democracy, security, and the rule of law. The Venezuelan military must stand with the people of Venezuela. Bolton’s words echoed those of Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Iowa), who threatened “whatever action necessary” should Russia encroach on “our hemisphere” last month

www.rt.com...

I wonder why Trump doesn’t tweet threats at Putin?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Tartuffe

For all the good that it's doing them, they might as well go on a hunger strike to protest!

If history is any indicator, the end result of revolution is not always better.

Russia, for all their talk has a crap economy and can't afford to prop up any regime outside of Europe.

So I wouldn't worry about Russia making them a puppet state.

But the revolutions out of Socialism have always been better. The revolutions of '89 for instance. At least the soviets had the good sense to relinquish power when they realized it was all over. I'm not sure Maduro has that sense.

I fully understand your point and agree to an extent. But I also believe there should be a red line.

nope not true.. ! refinnery's closed douwn last year and all assets of Venezuela where frozen earlyer

a reply to: Tartuffe

a reply to: Willtell



That BS sounds a bit hollow now days , whos democracy for whos benefit? Brexit and the yellow vests would have a different slant on it.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I agree, the people have it bad.

But people have it bad everywhere.

Where do we draw the line?

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Tartuffe

That is true and the situation is untenable and wholly unacceptable

Especially for Venezuela, who's Citizens-turned-subjects absolutely remember what life in a free country was like. That makes it even more difficult

What I am saying is that the people of Venezuela are worth saving. And there is no greater honor or act deserving of absolute unwavering admiration and appreciation than laying your own life down for your country. Now this is certainly a just cause, but can we really ask our brave men and women of the US armed forces to put their lives on the line for another country?

We both seem to agree that something should be done, but disagree perhaps in the implementation. I believe we can accomplish this objective by arming the resistance groups (heavily arming), providing close air support via UAS and strategic cruise missile strikes against loyalist factions, providing in-depth logistical support (including food, medical supplies, ammo, etc), and providing the opposition with crucial intelligence support

Well, my ideas of intervention do not necessarily mean full-blown war and boots on the ground. I agree we can help with the implementations you just described.

What I am worried about is that we stand by and do nothing. You know that famous quote, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Maduro and his ilk love that we would do nothing. That's exactly what they want.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I understand, and I believe we should arm them with the latest and greatest US issued small arms available (side arms, SMGs, assault rifles, LMGs, anti-tank missiles, anti-air missiles, explosive munitions for sabotage, etc) along with a loan of assault vehicles, armor systems (both vehicle, building and personal), etc

The money isn't the concern here, as I personally would not put a price tag on freeing the people of Venezuela. But as others have pointed out, they have to show us they want this. In Iraq, all too often the CItizens either watched from the sidelines or actively opposed us in some cases. Some folks don't take kindly to foreign troops in their cities and streets (understandably so)

And weapons are just a part of it, logistics is the most critical aspect of any operation and ensuring your fighting force remains supplied, taken care of and organized is a primary concern. Providing food and medical supplies by the Ton, along with intelligence assistance is another great way to help. And finally, using various unmanned aerial systems and cruise missiles would allow us to strike the enemy with great effect. There are also a wide variety of manned stealth aircraft that could potentially be used to drop heavier and more powerful bombs on targets. Fighters on the ground could even laser designate targets for the remote air systems

One thing is for certain, I too want to end their suffering as quickly and efficiently as possible. The one thing we can't have is poor perception management, however, as failing to win the hearts and mind of all Venezuelans could be disastrous leading to an Iraq-like insurgency situation. This is why I believe a quick strike aimed at decapitating Maduro, his government and his loyalists would be the most effective

With Maduro eliminated, the newly-minted US-armed and supported resistance groups could quickly secure supply lines allowing food and medicine to start flowing into the country - legitimizing their new government and subverting the socialist order by allowing Citizens to get their supplies from somewhere other than the government. After stability is reached, it would be crucial to have Internationally-observed elections to ensure the newly freed citizens of Venezuela get a chance to truly decide the future path THEIR country will take

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Tartuffe

I agree, the people have it bad.

But people have it bad everywhere.

Where do we draw the line?

For Obama in Syria, the red line was at Assad gassing his own citizens. The line was crossed and whatever hope the Syrian people had was dashed when Obama never enforced it. Now look at Syria.

But that is the immortal question. Where do we draw the line?

a reply to: JBurns

I concur with those ideas.

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Tartuffe

I agree, the people have it bad.

But people have it bad everywhere.

Where do we draw the line?

For Obama in Syria, the red line was at Assad gassing his own citizens. The line was crossed and whatever hope the Syrian people had was dashed when Obama never enforced it. Now look at Syria.

But that is the immortal question. Where do we draw the line?

that's a philosophical question that no one has found an answer for.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Tartuffe

I agree, the people have it bad.

But people have it bad everywhere.

Where do we draw the line?

For Obama in Syria, the red line was at Assad gassing his own citizens. The line was crossed and whatever hope the Syrian people had was dashed when Obama never enforced it. Now look at Syria.

But that is the immortal question. Where do we draw the line?

that's a philosophical question that no one has found an answer for.

I can't say that the line has been crossed yet. But maybe Trump should make a declaration of a red line and enforce it.

a reply to: Tartuffe

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Spot on Very relevant and very moving quote Tartuffe

I agree, we can not stand by idly while this continues. And I also agree the people of Venezuela do not have the luxury of waiting around while the issue is debated and discussed to no end

I think it is in all of our interests if Venezuela is once again a free nation with free citizens who have the liberty of self-determination and to decide how they will live their lives. It will help the refugee crisis, increase security on the continent but most importantly it is the Right Thing to do

I too am not entirely opposed to involvement by the armed forces, I just want to be sure this is something the people of Venezuela are willing to take up arms (if we were to supply them) and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the United States in presenting a unified front against Maduro and despotism wherever it pops up. It just is my belief (perhaps, hope?) that the armed forces of Venezuela would stand with the legitimate President and legislative body if Maduro was out of the picture entirely

It seems we agree that something must be done, and must be done quickly to alleviate very real human suffering and just as importantly to do what is right and just

This could be a dangerous situation
And…
Amazingly the MSM FOX, CNN and MSNBC the three tabloid FAKE NEWS CIA run sites don’t even mention this very significant news story!

This country is gone!

a reply to: Willtell

Agreed

Our MSM is pathetic

They think the Kardassins and latest gossip and political brown-nosing is more important than real journalism

Where has the 4th estate gone?

a reply to: EchoesInTime

This only going to go one way... a civil war in Venezuela (cia) +proxies
vs Medura henchmen and Russian ( cough) advisors.

a reply to: JBurns

Its really striking one can’t get relevant topical news in the US from any mainstream source.

Just tabloid gibberish.

And this is news why? This was bound to happen and the groundwork was laid long before this.

Here is the take in a nutshell:

US involvement in Latin America has not been a shining example. Its policies during the cold war, up to the end of the Soviet Union, has been mired in political intrigue, civil war, bloodshed, and shipping its problems back to other countries.

Many of those same central and South American countries, have a long history, going back to the conquest of the new world, then revolutions and ultimately civil wars which set the very boarders and countries that are present today.

Venezuela started to warm its relations with then the Soviet Union in 1970, and then warmed up in 2005, when Russia lent the country, under President Chavez, close to 4 billion dollars and including far more investments. In 2008, there was discussions and far greater treaties on an economic scale and further routes and inroads between both countries. This would also bloom into other industries and far range plans. This warming continued into when Maduro took the reins of power through his first election and then into the controversial second election. Both countries have been having joint military exercises and Russia is viewing the country as a strategic asset, and ally in the area.

Now since things are going a bit of politically unstable, it is not unsurprising that Russia would move more military assets into the area to give aid to Maduro and the forces that support him for control over the country. There are military and economic treaties that both countries have had, and for the past, Venezuela has made alliances with other countries like North Korea and Iran, and that tells you about where the US stands in the eyes of those in power in Venezuela. Even if the US were to try to move in to intervene military wise, the problem is that Russia has a legal claim to go in and protect its interest and ultimately that leaves the US out of the loop when it comes to the natural resources that the country has under its control.

And Russia is going to work on protecting it no matter what.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

Putin's response was actually to say, "Pull your troops out of Syria and we will think about it." (You gotta love it as a great response) Russia does have a treaty with Venezuela not to mention all the money they have given to the failed state.. China is also involved in the money handouts..

All options on the table IMO means we will finance a strong insurgency like we and others did in Syria..

youtu.be...

When Russian warships start escorting oil tankers out of Venezuela is the time to start worrying.

a reply to: MisterMcKill

You clearly dont know what you are talking about...full of ignorance...