Justice Department sides with court ruling Obamacare invalid

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: rickymouse

We need to just clean up the price gouging and unnecessary tests and procedures in our healthcare system and then get socialized medicine for necessary things.

I actually agree with this. Of course, it will mean some sacrifices. Keeping old people alive will no longer be a necessity, but death is a part of life anyway. None the less, the vast majority of people in the US will no longer be able to afford private health insurance even if its partially paid for by their employer. Government run socialized medicine would take a big load off employers and that would be great for small to medium size businesses.

Medicines and present medical concensus is killing just as many seniors as it helps. More people die from low blood pressure than die from High blood pressure. If the blood pressure drops too low, it can trigger an Afib event. It is a trade off, die one way or another. Also an older heart does not beat as strong. Diuretics can cause low blood volume in people, something only an expensive die containing MRI or cat scan can detect. More seniors go into the hospital and are given IVs containing electrolytes than anything, electrolytes like sodium that keep up the blood volume and restore it. Orthostatic hypotension is common in Seniors, a side effect of medicines they take, it can cause weakness and falls and is often related to hypovolemia or low blood volume.

Modern medicine in the USA probably causes just as many problems as it cures. Treating the symptoms instead of addressing the causes causes lots of sicknesses to continue.

There are some good doctors out there, but I do not even think they realize how to advise people how to correct problems some times. It does not help when some medicines screw up people's ability to maintain proper choline levels in the body, lowering them makes patients unable to identify side effects being caused by medicines, those medicines can block reasoning. A quarter of the people in this country are taking this kind of medicine that blocks reasoning.

So with reasoning blocked, how can the patient properly inform a doctor what is wrong?

a reply to: JBurns

Affordable care is one thing, access is another.

Please understand that insurance companies in the past had rules that let them dump you, or price premiums so high that they were obviously hoping you couldn’t pay them. Or, like me, it wasn’t a matter of affordability so much as I no longer qualified for insurance because I had had a serious illness.

If you’ve never really needed it, then I can understand your frustration, however, you are not invulnerable to illness, and, God forbid, you should find yourself or a loved one without access to care.

And I don’t care that you don’t care about me and mine. I care about you and yours, and you can’t make me stop caring, because that’s what I believe is right and good.

💛

originally posted by: xuenchen
Can't understand what everybody is so worried about.

Just look ...............

Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump

The Republican Party will become “The Party of Healthcare!”

To show how short-sighted and dull-brained, most liberal Democrats are, check this out..

www.vox.com...

They really think President Trump is encouraging the courts to scrap ObamaCare, and leave everyone with pre-existing conditions, out in the cold.

If Democrats had 1/8th of a brain, they'd understand that Congress only takes action when FORCED to. President Trump figured that out while watching and participating in the Immigration Reform morass.

If the courts strike down ObamaCare, and 8 million people with existing medical conditions are facing death and bankruptcy, CONGRESS WILL TAKE ACTION.

In short, they'll do what we frickin pay them to do...Look out for the people who elected them..American Citizens.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
That said, I wouldn't be surprised either way, I don't put much trust into politicians. Obama said "you can keep your own doctor". I'm surprised it's made it this long to be honest though. I don't know how the government can force you to consume a private product or get penalized.

If you were actually insured at the time, you could. Unfortunately for Obama, as it seems he wasn't even aware of it back then... the insurance that most people were carrying, covered so little that it couldn't even legally be called insurance, but rather supplemental insurance.

As far as purchasing people to buy insurance goes, I would like to live a long life. I can only do that if enough people are buying medications, that the cost of medications can come down to the price that it's affordable. If it cost $10 billion to bring a medication to market, if only 10 people purchase it, that treatment costs $1 billion dollars. If 1 billion people purchase it, it costs $10. This can only be done through a single payer system, and ample international cooperation.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Can't understand what everybody is so worried about.

It is the Democrats lifeline to make everything doom. They thrive
on making people worry, fret, and turn on each other, it is all
they have left to offer.

So...we will hear how millions will be without healthcare and
die even if it is a lie, cause that is what the Dems do.

And about 1/2 the voters will buy it, no matter what.

It is so bad that if there was an alternative that was more
effective, and cost less people will still rail against it because
it won't have the right name.

Maybe Trump should nick name it Trump care!

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
That said, I wouldn't be surprised either way, I don't put much trust into politicians. Obama said "you can keep your own doctor". I'm surprised it's made it this long to be honest though. I don't know how the government can force you to consume a private product or get penalized.

If it cost $10 billion to bring a medication to market, if only 10 people purchase it, that treatment costs $1 billion dollars. If 1 billion people purchase it, it costs $10. This can only be done through a single payer system, and ample international cooperation.

Economy of scale doesn't work with life-saving medications and medical procedures.

a reply to: burntheships

No. My answer to your hypothetical “great plan” is ”cool!” — except the TepRepss don’t have that. They don’t have anything that isn’t poison, so far.

Heck, I don’t care, spiff up the ACA, do Medicare for All or whatever — steal Dems thunder and call it TrumpCare — all I care about is that it works. See, I want my kid to live and he’s going to need healthcare in some form to do that. If “your team” comes up with a better plan than what we’ve got, or confiscates Dem ideas and slaps the big R on them, so what? Ever since he was born all I’ve done is try to keep him alive. You think i really give a crap about the name?

Nope. I just don’t believe that Trump or the R’s have the policy chops to really get that done...

Since 78% of the people on Medicare are happy with it, allow anyone who wants to, to buy into Medicare. All existing medical conditions are covered by Medicare.

Those who can't afford Medicare can go to, or stay on, Medicaid.

Everyone else can purchase whatever kind of private health insurance they want. Something that hasn't been possible since 1/1/2013.

a reply to: carewemust

If Democrats had 1/8th of a brain, they'd understand that Congress only takes action when FORCED to.

LOL. Like the way Congress was FORCED to give deep tax cuts to the richest Americans?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I think they meant, take action to help the common plebs of the world. Though considering their big money comes from bribes from the Rich you could say they are heavily influenced to help the rich. Which is one of the problems with our government. We're not the ones truly paying these people's paychecks, we're just the idiots they need to fool to get elected to then start getting the large paychecks from doing what someone will pay them more than us to do once they actually get elected.

Which is why they only act to help us if a situation arises that guarantees they won't get elected if they don't fix it. They at minimum care about that, cause if they can't get elected they can't sell us out.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: shooterbrody

Deflection....sigh. You're so predictable.

Trump promised, again and again, to protect those with pre-existing conditions.

Obama took away health insurance for millions, but also fined those same people for not being able to afford insurance because of the policies put in place exploded the price. Trump can’t lose with health insurance because it doesn’t get any worse than it already is.

But Obamacare gave millions of people high end insurance who never contributed a dime to healthcare or gave any thought about their health.

Now they have insurance, yay.....

a reply to: Aazadan

If you were actually insured at the time, you could. Unfortunately for Obama, as it seems he wasn't even aware of it back then

In some cities/towns a lot of the private practices got bought up by hospitals. While this was happening before ACA, it started to speed up after. If your doctors practice got bought, and you had an HMO, the new provider may not be covered.

the insurance that most people were carrying, covered so little that it couldn't even legally be called insurance, but rather supplemental insurance.

True.

As far as forcing people to buy insurance goes, I would like to live a long life. I can only do that if enough people are buying medications, that the cost of medications can come down to the price that it's affordable.

( I took out purchasing and instead put forcing which is what I assume you meant.)

Another thing that has happened since ACA is that stable pharma companies have been bought up by essentially hedge funds. Since there is more coverage now under the private platform, they are essentially extorting insurance companies.

I wasn't putting all of the blame on Obama, this ball was rolling before him... He did however speed it up, which I'll say was likely unintentional. Decisions of this proportion can have unexpected consequences.

I don't know what the answer is, but my point was I'm not surprised if this does get shot down as the government essentially told people they had to consume a private product, mind you one that resembles a car payment or a mortgage.

a reply to: Puppylove

I don't think that President Obama and his administration enacted the Affordable Care Act because they were bribed by the rich elites. But, I do think the Republican's efforts to repeal the Act were, and are, based in bribes from the insurance lobby.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Forcing people to buy a commercial product they can't afford or be made to pay a fine they likely still can't afford and you think this was in our best interests?

I cheared after taxes this year because it was the last year my inability to afford insurance while falling just outside being able gain help results in my being fined.

So thanks to Obama Care not only can I not afford insurance I get fined for it.

Meanwhile government still gets it's money, insurance gets to raise rates through the roof, and enjoy knowing people will be forced to buy their product or get fined money used to supplement their corrupy bs.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: burntheships

No. My answer to your hypothetical “great plan” is ”cool!” — except the TepRepss don’t have that. They don’t have anything that isn’t poison, so far.

Heck, I don’t care, spiff up the ACA, do Medicare for All or whatever — steal Dems thunder and call it TrumpCare — all I care about is that it works. See, I want my kid to live and he’s going to need healthcare in some form to do that. If “your team” comes up with a better plan than what we’ve got, or confiscates Dem ideas and slaps the big R on them, so what? Ever since he was born all I’ve done is try to keep him alive. You think i really give a crap about the name?

Nope. I just don’t believe that Trump or the R’s have the policy chops to really get that done...

Just FYI- TepRepss is a typo. I thought I’d fixed a previous typo but no, I only made it worse.
😂. So “Reps” is what I attempted to spell.

🙄

originally posted by: carewemust
Since 78% of the people on Medicare are happy with it, allow anyone who wants to, to buy into Medicare. All existing medical conditions are covered by Medicare.

Those who can't afford Medicare can go to, or stay on, Medicaid.

Everyone else can purchase whatever kind of private health insurance they want. Something that hasn't been possible since 1/1/2013.

I have no problem with that. Most people have to buy supplemental insurance in addition to Medicare, so it isn’t quite the full coverage one would hope for, and some people have issues with drug costs as well, from what I understand.

This won’t square with small government folks though...

a reply to: Puppylove

Forcing people to buy a commercial product they can't afford or be made to pay a fine they likely still can't afford and you think this was in our best interests?

Insurance is a commercial product. Seeing a doctor and following medical procedures is not.

I cheared after taxes this year because it was the last year my inability to afford insurance while falling just outside being able gain help results in my being fined.

Just curious. Are you self employed? Because most employers offer health insurance as part of your compensation package. Did you opt out of your employer's insurance package?

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: shooterbrody

Deflection....sigh. You're so predictable.

Trump promised, again and again, to protect those with pre-existing conditions.

First post claims president broke a promise
Second post calls another poster predictable

You can't make this up...

funny how that happens
or not

a reply to: DBCowboy

Government has no business in healthcare. Healthcare is not a right. It is a purchased service.

This is the debate that needs to be had that the politicians are scared of.
Is healthcare part of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?
(“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”)
Can those unalienable rights be stretched to include healthcare?
It has been stretched to include the mic.

IMO the politician able to make that debate happen is the one likely to win, as none seem to want to discuss it.
It is a discussion our nation needs to have.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Trump promised, again and again, to protect those with pre-existing conditions.

Nothing is done/undone yet, but...

You do realize that it is absurd to suggest that insurance companies should be required by law to provide 'coverage' to people with pre-existing conditions, right?

Supporting such a policy means that you also are in favor of requiring insurance companies to sell a homeowners insurance policy to someone who calls in and says "I need an insurance policy that covers my home for fire damage, it is burning down as we speak" - at the same rate as they would sell to someone whose house wasn't in the process of burning down.

The solutions is simple - just create a new Medicare program for people with pre-exisitng conditions but can't afford to pay for their own care.